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Originally Posted by kindlekitten
kings ruled by "divine right", the popes gave, or endorsed divine right. they approved or dissapproved marriages, threatened monarchs with ex-communication if they would not come to heel with the wishes of the church. the church was THE authority in western Europe.
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OK, yes, you're right about that. Except that it's true in the context of medieval society, which was a very complex system of powers and counter-powers, based on a network of personal loyalties.
The church was certainly one of the main players in that field, but the authority of the Pope, in practice, was just as limited as the authority of the king, who relied mostly on the good will of his vassals, who themselves relied on their own network.
The king of France was one of the most powerful monarchs of the time, and the king of France, by our standards, was pretty much penniless and powerless.
If I go back to your initial post:
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prior to the reformation the catholic church for all intents and purposes ran the western world. all authority came from god then to the church who would then give the authority to the king to rule.
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This gives the impression of the church running Europe like Obama runs the U.S. or Sarkozy France, which is completely anachronistic.
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Originally Posted by kindlekitten
start with "Dungeon Fire and Sword" by John J. Robinson. it gives a good overview of the crusades, the church invovlement in it, your own country, their involvement and how they were completely manipulated by the pope.
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I'll make a note of that book, thank you. But of course I have no doubt that the pope at times manipulated the king of France. And at other times, the opposite was true. The balance of power fluctuated, and there was never a complete control of one party over the other.