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Originally Posted by kindlekitten
prior to the reformation the catholic church for all intents and purposes ran the western world. all authority came from god then to the church who would then give the authority to the king to rule. if the king stepped out of line the church took corrective measures. after the reformation it made it possible for countries to run themselves without church interference. there were no longer church courts, it was civil not secular law. of course a few countries were slower to respond than others.
I'm not attempting to infer that dying or killing in the name of any god is good, right, proper or any other acceptable philosophy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kindlekitten
sorry, I was only a history major. not sure what you are taking exception to
I was just trying to give a snapshot, nothing in depth
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I am taking exception to giving a vision of history that is so simplified it ends up being distorted. This is not a snapshot, it's a lie.
The Church was a major power for many centuries, yes, and at some periods and/or in some regions it was sufficiently powerful and secular power sufficiently weak or at least atomized for the Church to gain the upper hand. At other times it was the other way around.
I wasn't a history major, but I know a little about at least French history (I'll admit my knowledge is far from extensive though). There was a constant power struggle between the French Monarchy and the Church, and obviously the Church was no small force, but at no single moment in French history did the Church simply dictate who could be King, or how he could behave. It was influential, yes, and I'm sure there were some times when they were in a position to decide events, but the Pope simply did not rule France, or any other European country. And if the King had to reckon with the Pope, the opposite was true also.
And I don't think what is true for a relatively powerful (for the times, which isn't saying much) central state like France is so far from the truth even in regions where power was more localized. There was simply no way, at that time, for any power to rule the whole of Europe.
But if you have references of books or serious websites that demonstrate how the Church ruled Europe, I'd be happy to look them up.