[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

Cool thread. Even on one of the better politics / other boards I frequent (DVDtalk) this kind of thread gets out of hand pretty quick.

I consider myself agnostic, barely, because to me some things we will never know - we can't possibly know. I don't object to religion to fill the space of unknowable answers. But I'm a man of science and I look to it for man's way to find these answers - not a mystical holy book. Science and rationality first, religions second if you must have it, to fill in the gaps.

I consider there is a tiny chance that the Christians are right - or the Jews or the Muslims or the Buddhists - but I do consider some as slightly more ridiculous than others. My background is kind of liberal Mormon (RLDS or whatever they are called now) and I find there version of American continental history laughable. I just avoid the subject around my grandma and other religious people in my family though - I'm not a confrontational almost-atheist.

how can you be a green monkey if you are a pirate hamster?

Originally Posted by Mercury

I have enjoyed this thread, and think that everyone has been pretty civil, (on both sides) which is all too rare.

I find that religious people, atleast here in the UK, have jumped on to this 'aggressive athiest' thing in the last couple of years, so now anyone saying clearly and slowly that they do not believe in any kind of deity is classed as aggressive, strident, shrill etc. Additionally, because of the harm being done to our state school system with the huge amount of faith schools now, those who dare to speak out are labelled as angry secular athiests, even if they have some kind of belief.

Part of the problem here is that many people are not aware of the kind of teaching that is going on in these faith schools. It is not like it was when you could tell it which faith the school belonged to, only by watching which god they prayed to in assembly. Some islamic state schools spend 50% of the school day learning the koran, and in other lessons, such as science, the children are taught what the koran has to say about things. I find that appaling, and unfair on the children. It is a betrayal by the education department, who should ensure acceptable levels of teaching in every school.

It would never have occured to me ten years ago to bring up my lack of belief in any god or religion, it just wouldn't have been needed. Now, sadly, it is as though we were going backwards in our understanding of pretty much everything, and a troubling new faith based approach is being adopted to institutions (such as schools and hospitals) which have no business IMO doing anything on 'faith'. This is why I am more passionate than before, and make my views known more clearly than i would have done previously. I can't be too worried if stating my views politely but strongly manages to offend some people.

one of few things we DO get right in this country regarding education and religion is that public schools (the ones paid for by tax dollars) do not have ANY religious instruction at all!

Originally Posted by Joebill

Some of my relatives go to a 'non-denominational Christian church' and send their kids to a school they operate.

( side comment: I fail to understand the phrase 'non-denominational Christian church' because if its Christian, it has a domination.)

Anyways. the oldest of the two kids are now approachnig 30 years of age, the second oldest is 27.

The oldest is a 'Youth Preacher' in the same Chruch, the 27 tyear old broke away. The 27 year old has asked me enough questions over the past 10 years for me to realize he got a very distorted view of history, science, math, etc.

How that school got accreditation to teach and hand out a diploma to a student I don't know.

He did tell me the local community college wouldn't accept his transcript/diploma as valid. He did get accepted elsewhere, but he does realize he got shafted in his education.

that is so sad/scary! you should complain to the board of education and see that their certification is removed!

Originally Posted by TGS

So is the difference between atheist and an agnostic that the former would say something like, there is nothing I have experienced, and there is nothing I could possibly experience, that would cause me to believe in the existence of god, whilst the latter might say there is nothing that I have experienced so far, though I remain open to the possibility that in the future there could be such an experience, that causes me to believe in the existence of god?

that's pretty much my take on it, with maybe the agnostic saying; "I think there may be something, I'm just not sure what."

Originally Posted by weateallthepies

I have issue with it when the schools are accepting state funding, and even more so when those schools give preference to pupils whose parents attend the correct church. We have this situation, both schools are Christian of some sort, one of them has an exclusive entry system based on your church attendance.

you don't say where you are from, but here in the states, that is not allowed at all. in fact private schools get -0- state funding.