[Over]

Originally Posted by TGS

There's nothing special about "life" - it's just a form of organisation of stuff that has some unusual emergent properties, (unusual in the sense that most stuff doesn't seem to organised that way, and therefore doesn't have that property).

Life is not special - is that a scientific statement?
Anyway, I gave the example of the origin of life because it's an obvious one, "the elephant in the room".

Originally Posted by kennyc

This is where you are wrong. Evolution is a process. The selection is by survival -- that IS the force.

My english skills are very rusty (I read very well, bu writing is another matter), so I guess I didn't comunicate well what I intended.

Anyway, the point was randomness. Unless you come with the theory of the butterfly effect, saying that everything is a relation of cause - effect.

However, I still say it's randomness when you throw a basket ball with your eyes closed and after spinning you around, and manage to score. Sure you can explain about direction, force, how the ball went from your hands to the basket, why you felt dizzy after spinning you around, etc... But for me, that score was random.

The selection isn't a force. The random and respective cause - effect events aren't selected or driven. The force doesn't select who survives, those who survive are called the selected after whatver happened, happened.

Sorry if I'm not explaining myself very well, I hope I'm not frustating you.

Originally Posted by Graham

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And in terms of life "like ours", they're getting closer all the time:

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The fact that science hasn't yet solved an origin question doesn't make an alternative faith position any more valid.

Graham

Of course not, and that wasn't my point. My point is that science can't deny a God/Creator, because it can't even explain the origin of life nor reproduce it. What I'm saying is that neither religion neither science can't know for a fact our origin, so I think it isn't very honest to deny eachother. Science doesn't know, but it believes in his own hypothesis and speculation, without factual proof. That's a form of faith.

So far, about origins, it's all about giving it more time, to make it more plausible, until some answer appears. Now there's multiple universes, big bangs... More time, more randomness, better the odds of fitting current hypothesis in scientific canon.