Quote:
Originally Posted by nekokami
SameOldStory, to be clear, I wasn't attributing the point of view of Fallen Angels or the reviewer of Holdren's book to you. I was simply saying that 1 - while the scenario in Fallen Angels makes for an entertaining story, it probably doesn't have much bearing on whether or not current climate change concerns are well-founded, so I wasn't sure why it was being brought up in this thread, and 2 - the quotes you posted from the Amazon reviewer seemed highly charged and of questionable accuracy based on information I've reviewed in formal studies as well as my personal experience with children from China and with people I have met while in China. Perhaps a quote from Holdren's book would be more helpful to this discussion? Or some information about Holdren's scientific qualifications?
"I was simply saying that 1 - while the scenario in Fallen Angels makes for an entertaining story, it probably doesn't have much bearing on whether or not current climate change concerns are well-founded, so I wasn't sure why it was being brought up in this thread,"
The remark about respecting multiple points of view wasn't directed at you at all-- just a "play nice" reminder to several participants who seemed to be getting a little worked up about the topic.
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"I was simply saying that 1 - while the scenario in Fallen Angels makes for an entertaining story, it probably doesn't have much bearing on whether or not current climate change concerns are well-founded, so I wasn't sure why it was being brought up in this thread,"
(Side note - I'm not sure about happy_terd's post
#551. It starts off with
One cold winters day in the year 2079. And
THEN it doesn’t say a thing about the problem!)
Fallen Angels is only germane to the conversation in that the book was brought to mind by the topic - global warming. I didn't know that I shouldn't mention fiction that is tangentially related to the topic.
" the quotes you posted from the Amazon reviewer seemed highly charged "
He did seem upset. But John Holdren's views are unambiguous and a little out of the mainstream.
"seemed highly charged and of questionable accuracy based on information I've reviewed in formal studies as well as my personal experience with children from China and with people I have met while in China."
So the news stories and references from posting #557 are inaccurate fabrications? Personally, I would much rather think that they were fake stories.
"Perhaps a quote from Holdren's book would be more helpful to this discussion?"
There I have to admit defeat. There are many who quote sections from the book that he co-wrote. The detractors quote passages that really do sound horrible. The supporters of John Holdren, the man, say that you can't attribute any one particular statement to him alone (there were 2 other co-writers after all).
They also say that the book was written back in 1977. This is a specious argument though. There are many "old" books that are repellant, no matter how long ago they were written. How about that great book "THE JEWISH QUESTION" by Arno Schickedanz? Any takers? Will it ever be "ok" because it was written a long time ago?
There is a third group. Those that agree with the statements in the book Ecoscience.
"Or some information about Holdren's scientific qualifications?"
Holdren is a physicist. But like many bright people he has mushroomed.
Wiki has a favorable review, although it did include a quote from a 1969 article -
"if the population control measures are not initiated immediately, and effectively, all the technology man can bring to bear will not fend off the misery to come."
We each have our own criteria by which we judge the information that's out there. The best I can say is to google "John Holdren". Decide what you choose to believe. To do a study of the man is
far more than any of us would want to do. And in the end few would be swayed.
My impression is that he is of "the ends justify the means" crowd.