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SameOldStory · 07-10-2010, 05:20 PM

"Fallen Angels by Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven and Michael Flynn"

"As much as I love science fiction in general and Larry Niven in particular, this is not scientific research. I've read the book, and it was entertaining, but not especially convincing."

Sorry nekokami. I didn't think that anyone would believe that I had intended to offer this up as "scientific research." Or even a likely scenario for that matter.

The Synopsis? It's copied directly from the link - Fallen Angels. Second paragraph down.

Regarding my post (excerpt taken from Amazon.com) about Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, co-written by John Holdren.
"- Legalizing "compulsory abortions," ie forced abortions carried out against the will of the pregnant women, as is common place in Communist China where women who have already had one child and refuse to abort the second are kidnapped off the street by the authorities before a procedure is carried out to forcibly abort the baby. "

That excerpt was not written by me. That's the first review on Amazon's page for that book. I thought that the link would make the source self evident.

"I have to take issue with this. I have two daughters adopted from China, one of whom I know to have been a second child, clearly not forcibly aborted. I'm not saying this has never happened in China (or elsewhere), but it is not the universal or widespread practice that some seem to feel confident in referring to. This kind of comment does nothing to support the credibility of this reviewer."

The writer does say that it is common place. I do not know that to be true, and I should have read it more carefully. My apologies.

John Holdren does however believe that legalizing "compulsory abortions" may be necessary, world wide, in the future.

Forced abortions do happen though, even if it's not common place.

Woman Forced to Abort Fetus at Seven Months
"A 25-year-old unmarried woman was seven months pregnant when staff members from the local government family planning office forcibly took her to a clinic to give her an abortion."

Even this from NPR -
Cases of Forced Abortions Surface in China
"During the past week, dozens of women in southwest China have been forced to have abortions even as late as nine months into the pregnancy, according to evidence uncovered by NPR."

China Trying to Force 6-Months’ Pregnant Woman to Abort
"Those who violate the rule must pay large fines, although reports of zealous officials ordering forced abortions in rural and semi-rural areas are fairly common." (Not my wording, just to make it clear.)

Increasing abuses generated by China’s coercive birth-control policies
“It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families, and that includes being forced to have an abortion or sterilised against their will.” (UN Conference on Women-Beijing 1995)"

It appears to happen mainly (but not exclusively) in small towns, villages, and the country side. That it does happen is evident. How common neither you not I can say, as China (the government) will be reluctant to report that information.

The good news is that there is an effort to stop the very real, and very large abortion of female fetuses and children. (This is not a mistake)

OLD NEWS (from 2004
Risk of abortion for 40-60 million female children over ten year period
"The United Nations has reported that in China there is the risk that 40-60 million female children will be either aborted or killed in China over the next 10 years"

Working Group on the Girl Child
NGO Committee on the Status of Women – Geneva
"In fact, due to the high occurrence of foeticides, infanticides, including newborn neglect and abandonment, the world is currently deprived of over 100 million women. China and India alone are responsible for 80 million missing females."

NEWER NEWS
Male-female birth ratio improves in China

"I am not doubting anyone else's intelligence or good intentions, and I would appreciate the same courtesy in return."

"This kind of comment does nothing to support the credibility of this reviewer."

???

OooKaaay, I guess.

07-10-2010, 05:20 PM	#557
SameOldStory My True Self Posts: 3,126 Karma: 66242098 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Trantor, Galactic Center Device: Galaxy Tab 2 7.0	"Fallen Angels by Jerry Pournelle, Larry Niven and Michael Flynn" "As much as I love science fiction in general and Larry Niven in particular, this is not scientific research. I've read the book, and it was entertaining, but not especially convincing." Sorry nekokami. I didn't think that anyone would believe that I had intended to offer this up as "scientific research." Or even a likely scenario for that matter. The Synopsis? It's copied directly from the link - Fallen Angels. Second paragraph down. Regarding my post (excerpt taken from Amazon.com) about Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment, co-written by John Holdren. "- Legalizing "compulsory abortions," ie forced abortions carried out against the will of the pregnant women, as is common place in Communist China where women who have already had one child and refuse to abort the second are kidnapped off the street by the authorities before a procedure is carried out to forcibly abort the baby. " That excerpt was not written by me. That's the first review on Amazon's page for that book. I thought that the link would make the source self evident. "I have to take issue with this. I have two daughters adopted from China, one of whom I know to have been a second child, clearly not forcibly aborted. I'm not saying this has never happened in China (or elsewhere), but it is not the universal or widespread practice that some seem to feel confident in referring to. This kind of comment does nothing to support the credibility of this reviewer." The writer does say that it is common place. I do not know that to be true, and I should have read it more carefully. My apologies. John Holdren does however believe that legalizing "compulsory abortions" may be necessary, world wide, in the future. Forced abortions do happen though, even if it's not common place. Woman Forced to Abort Fetus at Seven Months "A 25-year-old unmarried woman was seven months pregnant when staff members from the local government family planning office forcibly took her to a clinic to give her an abortion." Even this from NPR - Cases of Forced Abortions Surface in China "During the past week, dozens of women in southwest China have been forced to have abortions even as late as nine months into the pregnancy, according to evidence uncovered by NPR." China Trying to Force 6-Months’ Pregnant Woman to Abort "Those who violate the rule must pay large fines, although reports of zealous officials ordering forced abortions in rural and semi-rural areas are fairly common." (Not my wording, just to make it clear.) Increasing abuses generated by China’s coercive birth-control policies “It is a violation of human rights when women are denied the right to plan their own families, and that includes being forced to have an abortion or sterilised against their will.” (UN Conference on Women-Beijing 1995)" It appears to happen mainly (but not exclusively) in small towns, villages, and the country side. That it does happen is evident. How common neither you not I can say, as China (the government) will be reluctant to report that information. The good news is that there is an effort to stop the very real, and very large abortion of female fetuses and children. (This is not a mistake) OLD NEWS (from 2004 Risk of abortion for 40-60 million female children over ten year period "The United Nations* has reported that in China there is the risk that 40-60 million female children will be either aborted or killed in China over the next 10 years"* Working Group on the Girl Child NGO Committee on the Status of Women – Geneva "In fact, due to the high occurrence of foeticides, infanticides, including newborn neglect and abandonment, the world is currently deprived of over 100 million women. China and India alone are responsible for 80 million missing females." NEWER NEWS Male-female birth ratio improves in China "I am not doubting anyone else's intelligence or good intentions, and I would appreciate the same courtesy in return." *"This kind of comment does nothing to support the credibility of this reviewer."* ??? OooKaaay, I guess.