Discussion: The Trial by Frans Kafka
 

Tells us about your "trials" of reading this book. What did you think of it. What was the book about? Was the book about any thing? Why do the judges live in the attic?

BOb

I have to confess that I gave up about a third of the way through. I found it an extremely tedious book. Sorry :(.

I agree... it was. But, it was small, and I kept thinking the author would explain what was really going on. Alas, I was disappointed.

But, I did finish it.

BOb

I thought the first third was fairly interesting, the second third had me gripped, and the last third was a struggle.

It reminded me of 'Catch 22' - a one-theme novel that would have been better as a short story.
I liked the evocation of dream-like scenes, and the overall sense of pessimism and futility was interesting. I imagine it was supposed to be an allegory of a human life from birth to death, and all the inconsequential things that happen in between.
Interesting, but not as good as 'Metamorphosis'. 6/10

Yes, well said. My thinking was that "The Trial" was more about the trials of ones life. Also, how things that are totally unexpected can crop up and take over your life. Things like marriage, the birth of a child, a sickness or death in the family, a catastrophic event, etc.

BOb

Here are some study guide questions. The site I got it from said they are "free" so I hope they don't mind me posting them here to spark our discussion.

Here is where I got them, giving credit where it is due:
http://thebestnotes.com/booknotes/Tr...y_Guide20.html

1. What are the two levels at which the novel operates?

2. What is K's guilt? Why does he consider himself guilty?

3. What is the significance of the lawyer Huld?

4. Would you call Block, the hero of the novel, because he submits to Fate and understands the system?

5. How relevant is Kafka's story in a democratic set up today?

6. Why does K submit meekly to his executors?

7. What do you think of the painter, 'Tutterolli'?

8. Write a note on the voyeuristic reader or the reader's response as identified with the silent observers in the book.

9. Write a short note on Frau Grubach.

10. Delineate K.'s, relationship with women in 'The Trial'.

11. Delineate K.'s, relationship with women in 'The Trial'.

12. Describe the character of Block-the tradesman.

13. Contrast the women characters Fräulein Bürstner and Leni.

14. Comment on the use of spaces-the townscape outside the window and the vaulted architecture of the Cathedral as the background to important events in the book.

15. Write a detailed essay on the courtrooms and the procedure of the courts in bringing the accused to trial.

16. The use of metaphor in Kafka's 'The Trial'.

17. 'Alienation' as characteristic of modernistic fiction in the role of K.

18. The role of the prison Chaplain in K.'s life.

19. A short note on the whipping scene.

20. Write a note on the changes in furniture, robing and disrobing in the book.

21. The role of the usher in the book.

22. The use of parables in giving a message.

23. Commentary as a Judaic method used in literature. (e.g. Description of court procedures)

24. The, use of metaphor in 'The Trial'. (The answer is 'dizziness, the dog metaphor, robing, Leni's webbed fingers...)

25. The legend as a tool in the telling of the tale. (The doorkeeper)

26. The use of allegory. (The whipping scene)

27. Kafka's obsession with the 'guilt' of the fallen man or, as the corner stone of Judeo Christian religion.

I read somewhere there was a discussion about how relevant this book is in parallel with the patriot act. Being arrested and put on "Trial" for something.. you don't know what you did, and you aren't told. Also, how policy and procedure seems more important than justice?

Thoughts?

BOb

I have some preliminary reactions to my first reading of the book.

Even though it deals with an individual in conflict with a state, I don't think it is in the least political. The place and time of the story and the nature of the political and legal system involved are too vague for this to be satire. There is nothing specific enough to be satirized.

The Trial has a dream-like quality in which events don’t follow a realistic logic. If the book is about something it is about Joseph K’s thoughts and emotions, particularly his anxieties.

I think it needs to be experienced and not interpreted. I don’t think it is an allegory. It can’t be reduced to some succinct and specific meaning.

We can all relate to it because we have all had experiences that in some way resemble it. We were all children who had to follow rules that we didn’t understand. We all have faced or have known those who have faced life-threatening illnesses (or other catastrophes) that strike without reason, like Joseph K’s unexpected arrest. At the most general level, we all have to make decisions, including very important ones, without having adequate information to make them wisely.

Well Bob we'd be here all day posting and reading if we answered all those questions!:eek:

In ref to #15-Don’t think I have the time or inclination to do a detailed essay. After all, I finished school many years ago!:D

But, here are my thoughts on The Trial:

Although the book started out interesting it soon lost my interest. I only hung on until the end to see if Kafka ever found out why he was arrested. When this book was written maybe people were arrested for an unknown reason. Can you imagine being arrested and not being told why? How could you possibly defend yourself! In today’s society I don’t believe anyone would settle for this and of course there are many laws to protect citizens from this happening. But could he have been part of a secret society (mob?) and it was their “court” he was going thru?

When Kafka went to his first trial (and I believe the only one) it seemed unreal. Like it was fake. So Kafka acted like a pompous jerk. I think he felt he was superior to the people attending. I would want to know why this court was so secret and hidden away in an attic. The only way you knew about it was to be arrested or knew someone else who got arrested?

The whipping scene was strange (and in the bank too!). Then to have the scene still going on the next day (or was that a dream)!?

I feel at the end Kafka felt he had no choice (or still thought it was a dream) to go with his executioners. Wasn’t the businessman still fighting his case after five years?

Overall, glad I finished the book. Don’t think I will be reading it again.

I'm not that far yet, but very early in the book there was something that could indicate that he enters a parallel world. Not neccessarily a 'true' parallel world, perhaps more to indicate K. enters a different state:
Quote: "The next room, which K. entered more slowly than he had intended, looked at first glance exactly the same as it had the previous evening. [...] Perhaps there was a little more space in there than usual ..."

I don't think it's about anything more specific than 'life' either - perhaps certain states of life. It's interesting that he's first arrested on his birthday (if not his 30th, it's thereabout) and that he's allowed to go to work again.

But could it be a birth day in a different sense? The start of the novel is like K has just been born, he's hungry and disconcerted and wants to know why he isn't being fed. He comes across as petulant and the 'policemen' treat him like a child, telling him what to do and refusing to answer his questions; they are also 'significantly bigger' than K and one of them even says to him "The way you’re carrying on, it’s worse than a child."

Interesting comments. After seeing them, I noticed something similar when rereading chapter 7:

As the two men leant over the desk and the manufacturer made some effort to gain and keep the deputy director’s attention, K. felt as if they were much bigger than they really were and that their negotiations were about him.

(This occurs on page 107 of the epub version from Feedbooks.)

The following is from chapter 7 after Joseph K. has decided to take a more active role and prepare his own defense document:

He no longer felt the contempt for the trial that he had had earlier. If he had been alone in the world it would have been easy for him to ignore it, although it was also certain that, in that case, the trial would never have arisen in the first place.

(Page 103 of the Feedbooks epub).

Joseph seems to think that if he had had no family ties he would not have been accused. I don't know what to make of this. Anyone care to comment?

I think this book is very much worth discussing, so I'll try again to provoke some discussion.

What is the priest's parable (in chapter 9) about? I think it's about the elusiveness of meaning and the inevitability of incomprehension. I think the book, itself a parable, is about the same thing.

In a different vein, why does Kafka make Joseph such a jerk? How would it change the book if Joseph were more likeable or admirable?

Thank you, Vector! You have nailed exactly why I have been having so much trouble w/this book...Joseph is such an unsympathetic character, a complete jerk.

So much so that I lose interest, change books and then have a problem getting back into The Trial.

Wanting to read many of the classics I missed reading in my youth and thinking the commentary would be interesting and stimulating, I did try. It's probably the case that I am not an allegorically (is that a word?) inclined reader.

Finishing has become a chore, one I don't need right now.
d

Well, Joseph's character may be part of the explanation, but I doubt it's the whole story. I suspect if you thought about it you probably could recall books that you enjoyed without liking the principal character.

This is probably more to the point. The genre, whatever it should be called, seems to be the problem for a lot of people. It's just not to everybody's taste. You have to be willing to enter an unpleasant world. Kafka was not interested in making his readers comfortable.

I'll take a stab at answering my own question. If Joseph were a much better person, it would risk turning the story into a simple tale of persecuted innocence. If Joseph were much worse, say a murderer, it would risk turning the story into a simple tale of crime and punishment. As it is, the book is no simple tale of anything but something provocative and disturbing.

I agree. Apart from this, I also think it may make Joseph K. a better representation of 'everyman'. Most of us aren't always 'good' or 'bad'. Our inner thoughts doesn't always match the outer facade that we show the world. He comes across, perhaps, a little worse than usual, not a 'happy' person, but also very 'human'.

I don't think it's a question of 'better' or 'worse'. He seems to me, I dunno, shallow, vapid...dorky comes to mind. I certainly would not classify him as representative of 'everyman' or very 'human'. I really disagree with you there, Ea.

And you are right, Vector, I can recall quite a few enjoyable books w/principal characters I didn't like...but at least they had some character. This guy for me is what the dictionaries define as 'an unsympathetic in literature or drama'.

You are wrong though on the reluctance to enter unpleasant worlds. Most of my favorite books (Cormac McCarthy oeuvre comes immediately to mind) are set in pretty dismal worlds.

Joseph world is fantastical and therein lies the 'rest of the story'...I don't care for fantasy.

Still I am going to try The Castle.
d

I think the term Kafkaesque is more about bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy. The court is just a confusing maze of procedures and that no one understands, even the people that are involved in it, like the lawyers... and then people are involved in it that shouldn't be, like the painter.

It is severely exaggerated of course, but I wouldn't call it a fantasy world.

BOb

When I say fantastic I'm referring to the physical settings not the situations. It's the situation that epitomizes the Kafkaesque.

But of course you're right, BOb. When I looked it up the definitions usually included something like 'surreal surroundings'. I'd forgotten the 'impending danger' aspect of it.

Would you categorize Albert Camus' (not read for years) or Samuel Beckett's (re-read frequently) writings as Kafkaesque? I think I would, but their settings are recognizable and for me making the situations more Kafkaesque. And more real.

With Kafka's interiors, even streets, being incomprehensible you figure well, I'll just wake up from this bad dream and everything will be fine. Whereas in real life the illogical is intertwined w/the logical, the ordinary, making it that much more bewildering and bizarre.
d

Thanks for the discussion everyone. Kinda confirms my decision to not read it. :)

It really wasn't the best book I ever read, but I am glad I read it. It was a very short book and a quick read... and some of the parts were a bit humorous (more so than that Three Men and a Boat one).

I am also glad I read A Passage to India even though I didn't totally enjoy that one either.

This is the reason I am in the club to get exposed to new books and authors. I think my favorite book club book so far had to be The Hound of the Baskervilles... I ended up reading the full Holmes collection. Hmmm... this gives me an idea for a new thread and poll.

BOb

Thanks Bob, agreed and I may read it at some point, just too many others to read at the moment. I downloaded the December selection let's see if I can get to that one...

I didn't find this an easy read but I did find it very interesting.

Some of the scenes seemed to be written in the same style that I have dreams in if that makes sense and for that reason I found it rather fascinating.

I wish I had done a bit more research before reading because I think I would have got more out of it if I had treated it like a piece of art and less like a story.

I am looking forward to reading the rest of his work now :)

I couldn't finish it, either..:lost: :lost: When I read on nightshift, I need something that really 'grabs' me :chinscratch:

I don't know which translation you read, but if it was the one available here on MR, you should note the comment I made on the translation, namely that a lot of the jokes are sort of lost in the translation. The translation by Breon Mitchell does a lot better at least in that respect.
There are, however, in any case, a lot of the jokes about bureaucrats, the way in which stupid policemen assert their authority in their own little way because they feel that's what's being asked of them, etc. (Much like you would never want to tease a TSA or police officer in the USA: They can do whatever they want in return, and the latter especially can then charge you with "obstruction", "resisting arrest", or "assault" whenever they feel like it.) The system has so many weird and hard-to-explain consequences for individuals (in how small-minded officials think they should behave themselves "as a police officer," and how they should tolerate no lip of any kind, etc.) as well as for anyone "accused" (take things as slowly as possible, don't not-show when you're summoned to court), who need never understand why they've been drawn into this weird netherworld, and will likely feel they don't deserve this (for very good reason), and will then resist, and cast "suspicion" upon themselves for not showing enough respect.

Imagine, for instance, filing a suit against your local county for not giving you a building permit when they should. You file, they wait until the last possible day to submit the stuff they have to submit in order not lose by default, then you wait for the judiciary to move. Then you file your stuff again, they wait until the term is up, and they file something again.
Meanwhile, however, you have to pay a lawyer (while the county likely has one on a retainer/costing them a flat fee per year), and your costs are running up quickly. You play this game until you've won, but by then you will have been unable to build whatever you were planning for 2-3 years, meaning you have been unable to invest this money elsewhere, and you've probably been billed about $200k in lawyer's fees.
Now that you've won, you will have to file a separate suit for reparations (your lawyer's fees, mostly, as well as losses incurred through not being able to do what you wanted).. Which might take another 1-2 years. Does lawyering sound like fun already? ;)

Admittedly the things the lawyers in the Trial do seem a bit more arcane and less useful, but it's not that far from today's experience either.