Hi Doitsu,

Thanks for the suggestion, but these Kindle textbooks lack the interactive index that my 2011 book had back in the day when KDP first announced "real page numbers."

I know that the KDP Simplified Formatting Guidelines for Word and Basic HTML Guidelines strongly recommend against, even may demand, no page numbers. And they say do not add an index!

This is unfortunate and speaks badly for the various Amazon formats and is even inconsistent with their section of their KDP guidelines on Page Numbers...

9.3.10 Page Number Guidelines
Kindle books do not always map directly to page numbers in physical editions of the book. Even if the Kindle Real Page Numbers feature is activated in the Go To menu, references within the eBook to page numbers should be handled as follows:

• Table of contents: If there are page numbers in the print source’s TOC, they should be removed in the digital conversion. The name of the section should be retained and hyperlinked to the relevant location in the eBook. For example, if a print source TOC displays the entry “Chapter 1 ... P. 36”, then the eBook should only display “Chapter 1” hyperlinked to the correct digital location.

• Internal links: If there is text that refers to another page in the eBook, such as “see page XX”, this text should be linked to the relevant paragraph within the eBook.

• Index: Every page number in the index should be linked to the relevant paragraph in the eBook (or the relevant illustration, table, or chart).

• Links within index: If there is an entry that references another section of the index, such as “see also XXX”, this text should be linked to the relevant section within the index.

I just went ahead five years ago and added an index (and a working ToC with page numbers, Go to Page in the Go to menu, etc.) to my first book in 2011. And I just did the same for my latest book. Both of these books are linked to the print edition with the same page numbers.

KDP support just told me that they will eventually get around to adding the Real Page Numbers features to my latest book. So go figure!

If anyone would like to see a Kindle MOBI reflowable book with my page numbers, I can "lend" you a copy, according to Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Will-Phil...dp/B0055T8XY6/

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Problems.../dp/B01LZPICAL

Jon, sweetie, sitting on my desk--used constantly--is an HP 12C calculator, which, IIRC, is...31 years old, that I bought new, in 85 or so. Possibly a year earlier, but I don't think so. It was the version created for business (y'know, with ROI, payment calculations, amortization scheduling and so on). I'm quite familiar with RPN, and to this day, I have to stop and readjust my brain (and ordering) if I'm going to use a regular calculator. So, yes, I know that RPN stands for Reverse Polish Notation.

How about a compromise, then, so you don't go off on one of your tears? RP#s. Ta-da. Happy now, my resident curmudgeon?

Really? Well, gosh, sweetie, you're killin' me, because we build them here daily. Right there at the end of the filename, it says ".mobi." Can you kindly take this one up with Bezos, Wolfie Quixote, because I'm just all played out on doing battle on 50 different fronts. Thanks. I understand the distinction you are endeavoring to make; however, they kept the .mobi file extension, and that's that.

I'm sorry, I just bloody disagree. Not with your take on it--you are correct there in assessing "if you must have X, then you really have to use Y." It's just...we do a LOT of fixed-layout, compared to the average bear. It's fine for many books. It is, in my opinion, not fine for text-heavy books. To me, it's just not very usable or user-friendly.

Let me put it this way: if the publisher doesn't care about how much inconvenience the end buyer is put through (don't think for a second that Amazon will be that cavalier, however), then fine. Create a "PDF with a wrapper," which as you noted is fundamentally how KPR and KTextbook function. Take a PDF, and wrap it.

They (KPR) are supported on these devices:

• Fire tablets
• Kindle for PC
• Kindle for Mac
• Kindle for iPhone, iPad, & iPod touch
• Kindle for Android
• Kindle for Samsung

And on NO OTHERS.

Yes, we've done this.

For all intents and purposes, KPR is (as you noted, Doits) just like putting a PDF on your Kindle or other eReader, unconverted. You sit there, pan/scan around, use internal nav links. And so on. I cannot imagine having a book on Amazon, that someone has to pinch-zoom, pinch-zoom, flip, pinch-zoom, lather, rinse, repeat, for 400 or so pages. I get uber-irritated when I'm trying to read a PDF on iBooks, never mind trying to suffer through it on my PHONE.

We do this relatively often, BTW, for "coffee-table books." In that environment, I think it works well. (Although, without naming names, we once did a set of books for a certain museum. They were adamant that it just HAD TO BE fixed-layout, because they didn't want to lose the flavor, layout, yadda. They were speechless once we'd complied--of course--and then I sent them the reflowables for ePUB/MOBI. Couldn't believe how gorgeous they were. I'm not trying to be braggadocious; I'm just saying...a little creativity and elbow grease can do wonders in an eBook.)

There is nothing wrong with PDF, on a device, if it's something you're going to check here and there. Or a quick reference, cheat-sheet, etc. But try to read for hundreds of pages, particularly on, say, an iPhone or Droid phone? Moses on a Pony.

However, all that complaining aside, Doits, if Bob or some other publisher is bound and determined to have their pages have "R#s," then, yes, RPN is the only way to do that. Or, to be specific, to do that in a way that is intrinsicand organic to the format.

That's my $.02, FWIW.

Hitch

Bob:

Great--so your issue is resolved then, right? That's terrific. Best of luck with it.

Hitch

You can download KF8 sample files from the Amazon KF8 page.

IMHO, this recommendation makes perfect sense for reflowable Kindle books.

I looked at the Kindle Publishing Guidelines and didn't find recommendations to that effect. AFAIK you can add an index as long as you don't use page number references.

AFAIK, KDP support can only add Real Page Numbers support if the original epub contains page number targets and a page list or a page map.

No argument from my side! I have merely mentioned Kindle Print Replica books for the sake of completeness.