I thought this was a fun read, not least because Chandler comes across not as a groundbreaker, but as a parody of himself. Especially at first before the plot (such as it was) got underway, when I thought he was working the similes and metaphors too hard. Just the same, the language was a joy to read.

I loved the staccato dialogue, the sense of place and time and the pervasiveness of evil. I thought his depiction of women was terrible. Not a one was believable; they were a bunch of vamps prone to screaming or giggling at inopportune times and behaving in an entirely incomprehensible manner (especially Silver-Wig) when necessary to get Marlowe out of a jam. That bothered me more than the homophobia or racism, which were organic in that context. Even their dialogue was frequently was absurd. One favorite, and from Vivian, supposedly the brightest of the bunch:

:rolleyes:

Oh yes, could not agree more! But I remember thinking that already when I read the books in my teens, so I was so prepared for it this time and just shock my head gentlly now and then...

What bothered me most in this book was the sometimes unexpected appearance of evil behind the mask of society, of normality; it gave me goosebumps.

Vivian Regan seemed to have no love for law enforcement. Did her views reflect Chandler's? On page 86 she says of Owen Taylor, "He has a police record. He didn’t know the right people. That’s all a police record means in this rotten crime-ridden country." And on page 226 she says to Marlow, "That makes you just a killer at heart, like all cops."

Since most men don't truly understand women, (and some even less than others), it shouldn't be surprising that some writers can't portray them well...

I think you missed Chandler's point, it wasn't the occasional unexpected appearence of evil behind the mask of society, but that society was evil at it's core, and that it was able to hide that fact so much of the time...

I did enjoy reading The Big Sleep. I tried watching the movie with Humphrey Bogart as Marlowe and I had to turn it off. I felt the movie just didn't work nearly as well as the book.

Of course the police back then were a bit on the rough side compared to what they are expected to be today. There was no miranda warning as yet and the rubber hose was (I understand) a very real thing. Now days the police are held to a higher standard of conduct (though there are still some incidents).

Mmm, interesting point of view as well..... There is more in the book than meets the eye.

I watched the film after reading the book way back and when rereading it for the Bookclub I heard the voice of Humphrey Bogart in my head the whole time....;)

Bogart was and still is Philip Marlowe. :)

I still like Robert Mitchum's Marlowe in Farewell, My Lovely

I thought the book was 'readable' and not much else! I disliked Chandler's portrayal of women and this did, unfortunately, colour my judgement of the story. I struggled to read to the end as I didn't care about what happened to the characters.

I think I was only really reading as I'm one of those souls who hasn't yet learnt to put an unfinished book down and leave it if I'm not enjoying it!

I enjoyed reading the book. And that enjoyment primarily was owing to the very stylized noirish atmosphere conveyed by the language which bristles with incredible similes on nearly every page. Here's a fairly representative sample fron ch. 28.

"Her very blue eyes flashed so sharply that I could almost see the sweep of their glance, like the sweep of a sword. . . She brought the glass over. Bubbles rose in it like false hopes. She bent over me. Her breath was as delicate as the eyes of a fawn."

And the women. . . :eek: They seem incapable of normal affection. Eddie Mars' wife "Silver-Wig" gives Marlowe a kiss after she frees him.

"Her face under my mouth was like ice. She put her hands up and took hold of my head and kissed me hard on the lips. Her lips were like ice, too.

"I went out through the door and it closed behind me, without sond, and the rain blew in under the porch, not as cold as her lips."

When one considers the vampiric quality of the Sternwood daughters--particularly the psychotic Carmen--one is certainly tempted to consider the book as misogynistic in the extreme. However the men are as bad: materialistic, cruel, vicious, brutal, sadistic, etc. Marlowe himself is no holy avenging angel. The only couple I can think of that seem to have a genuine affection is the unfortunate Harry Jones and the Blonde Agnes.

The plot of the novel is very diffuse and in many ways it is really a couple of stories vaguely linked by the dead Rusty Regan. It is the atmosphere of poison and rot that is memorable.

So in the end I believe that what makes the book live is its atmosphere of nihilistic darkness.

"What did it matter where you lay once you were dead? In a dirty sump or in a marble tower on tip of a high hill? You were dead, you were sleeping the big sleep, you were not bothered by things like that. Oil and water were the same as wind and air to you. You just slept the big sleep, not caring about the nastiness of how you died or where you fell. Me, I was part of the nastiness now. Far more a part of it than Rusty Regan was. But the old man didn't have to be. He could lie quiet in his canopied bed,. . . His thoughts were as gray as ashes. And in a little while he too, like Rusty Regan, would be sleeping the big sleep."

Misogynistic, racist, homophobic; the book was everything my 21st century sensibilities have learned to abhor. In addition, the characters were unbelievable and shallow.

I loved it.

Sure, I would hate working in the same office with someone like Philip Marlowe, and we'd certainly get onto arguments over politics and so much else; but as a book, the rapid-fire dialogue and constant barrage of one-liners kept me awake and wanting more; and as for the attitudes displayed, I can chalk that up to being an unfortunate reflection of the times in which Chandler was writing (although that certainly doesn't absolve the author by any means).

This is strange. No one campaigned more than I against this selection, and no one seems to have enjoyed it more.