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-   -   Kindle Keyboard will not download from gutenberg in browser. (https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206663)

Matteob 02-24-2013 10:14 AM
Kindle Keyboard will not download from gutenberg in browser.
 
Hi everyone I have just discoveredthis forum and it looks good. I wonder if you could help me with an issue? I have recently discovered online that one can go to the experimental browser on the kindle keyboard and download books directly from the Gutenberg site. However after downloading from the site the file is listed right at the end of the home page with no title or metadata (just pg012mobi) and it says that the file could not be downloaded.


I am running the version 3.4 of the firmware. Is this Amazon being evil and locking out third party direct downloads in the latest version of the software? I know there was a scathing article on the gutenberg site about the kindlefire doing this.

soulfuldog 02-24-2013 10:57 AM
Have you ever been able to do this directly from the Kindle? Just going by what it says on the Project Gutenberg wesbite, it tells you to download to your computer and then copy the file across to your Kindle?

http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Gutenb...ow-To#Kindle_3

Matteob 02-24-2013 11:12 AM
@ I_macd apparently you couldyes and they tell you so on the Gutenberg website. I do copy across but this would be great for downloading on the move say on holiday.

crich70 02-24-2013 11:21 AM
I've done it in the past on my Kindle Keyboard and had no trouble. And I tried it out on my new Paperwhite this morning and not only did the book download but it opened with no problem at all. It's possible that your wireless signal didn't download the book properly when you downloaded it and the file is corrupted. I'd delete it and try again just to make sure.

SteveEisenberg 02-24-2013 11:53 AM
I just tried it on my Kindle Keyboard 3G, using the built-in browser, and when within WiFi range.

On the Gutenberg web site, it seems like it is working. And it does put a .mobi file in the Documents folder of my Kindle. But this mobi file is NOT the book from Project Gutenberg, but rather a text file that can't be opened from the Kindle. When I connected my Kindle to my PC, and opened the .mobi file, in the Kindle documents folder, with Notepad, here's what was in it:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//IETF//DTD HTML 2.0//EN">
<html><head>
<title>403 Forbidden</title>
</head><body>
<h1>Forbidden</h1>
<p>You don't have permission to access /cache/epub/2701/pg2701.mobi
on this server.</p>
<hr>
<address>Apache Server at www.gutenberg.org Port 80</address>
</body></html>

I tried this for two books.

When you don't have a general purpose computer (like one running Windows, Linux, Mac OS, etc.), the bad news is that the Kindle Keyboard works best when you can partner it with a computer. However, a friend can download books for you and then email them to your @kindle.com address. That's works well, although you first have to go into Manage My Kindle on the Amazon web site and allow the friend's email address access to yours. Doing that maneuver from the Kindle Keyboard (as opposed to a PC) is probably possible, but difficult.

soulfuldog 02-24-2013 12:16 PM
I've never used it so wasn't sure it was possible... though I don't see why it shouldn't be. But I just tried it too and get the exact same file as SteveEisenberg has just posted.

crich70 have you still got your Kindle Keyboard, and if so, can you try it on it? Also, is it running the latest 3.4 firmware?

SteveEisenberg 02-24-2013 12:44 PM
Matteob: As you are a newbie, here's what we should have mentioned first:

Most popular Project Gutenberg books are available from this web site, and often with better formatting. And you don't need a computer for that.

From your Kindle Keyboard browser, go to:

mobileread.mobi

Then select:

Browse Ebooks

and you're on your way. Note that the "PRC" format, like the MOBI format, is for your Kindle.

Getting back to the trouble-shooting arena, I next tried Project Gutenberg Australia (http://gutenberg.net.au/), and could not get it to work using my Kindle Keyboard alone.

But then I went to Project Gutenberg Canada (http://gutenberg.ca/), and downloaded, from the "Text" link, a book out of copyright in my country, and -- success. Now, the formatting isn't so good.

The best way to get a Project Gutenberg Canada book onto your Kindle is to download the EPUB version and then convert that to MOBI with the super-popular Calibre (http://www.calibre-ebook.com/) software widely discussed here. But, on vacation, without a PC, the Canadian "Text" books will work.

Matteob 02-24-2013 12:46 PM
Nothing wrong with the wifi: all five bars lit and right by router. I get as said a pg***mobi file at end of list but can't be opened :/

EDIT Thanks Steve I'll do that but one of the reasons I like PG is that it has some more obscure stuff I am interested in such as William Dampiers voyages. Would be great to browse and download on the move but I guess I will have to continue to use my PC as a hub.

crich70 02-24-2013 02:59 PM
Oddly enough my K3 is also having trouble opening mobi files from Gutenberg, but the same file opens without a problem on the Paperwhite. And I do have the 3.4 version of the OS on the K3. Thanks for posting the mobile link to Mobileread SteveEisenberg. It works pretty good on the Paperwhite. :)

soulfuldog 02-24-2013 03:25 PM
Thanks for checking that crich70, it's strange how it's not working.

I tried one of the other 'free library' sites, American Libraries @ Internet Archive and managed to download a .mobi book from there without any problems, and of course, from the e-book library of Mobile Read (bookmarked that link thanks Steve).

So why is Project Gutenberg different?

ixtab 02-24-2013 05:16 PM
The key lies in what SteveEisenberg already posted:

<title>403 Forbidden</title>
</head><body>
<h1>Forbidden</h1>
<p>You don't have permission to access /cache/epub/2701/pg2701.mobi
on this server.</p>

For some reason, Project Gutenberg seems to dislike downloads from K3 devices. They most probably are "filtering" on the User Agent. Here's a test with wget:

Code:
$ wget http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701.kindle.noimages
--2013-02-24 22:09:15--  http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701.kindle.noimages
Resolving www.gutenberg.org... 152.19.134.47
Connecting to www.gutenberg.org|152.19.134.47|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden
2013-02-24 22:09:15 ERROR 403: Forbidden.

$ wget -U "Mozilla/5.0" http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701.kindle.noimages
--2013-02-24 22:09:30--  http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/2701.kindle.noimages
Resolving www.gutenberg.org... 152.19.134.47
Connecting to www.gutenberg.org|152.19.134.47|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 302 Found
Location: http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2701/pg2701.mobi [following]
--2013-02-24 22:09:30--  http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2701/pg2701.mobi
Reusing existing connection to www.gutenberg.org:80.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 2172590 (2.1M) [application/x-mobipocket-ebook]
Saving to: `2701.kindle.noimages'
So they disallow the download if the user agent is wget, but allow it for "Mozilla/5.0". They probably have a similar rule for the K3's User Agent - i.e., one to block the download.

You may want to contact Project Gutenberg about the issue. It's not logical for a site which is all about e-books to block downloads from e-book reader devices.

SteveEisenberg 02-24-2013 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_macd (Post 2435644)
I tried one of the other 'free library' sites, American Libraries @ Internet Archive and managed to download a .mobi book from there without any problems . . .
Me too. I just downloaded Little Women in .mobi from archive.org, without using a computer. So you can get a lot of what is in Project Gutenberg there, which isn't surprising because of what Project Gutenberg says here:

Quote:
. . . the Posting Team upload our texts when they're ready to two main FTP servers, ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org and ftp://ftp.archive.org, which serve as our master copies
And, yet, there are books at gutenberg.org that (like ones by William Dampiers, mentioned in #8 above) I can find at gutenberg.org but not at archive.org. And other books are both places in .txt, but only in .mobi at gutenberg.org. I guess that's because I'm just looking at http, not ftp -- but, AFAIK, you can't download from an ftp site to an unrooted eInk Kindle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ixtab (Post 2435780)
You may want to contact Project Gutenberg about the issue.
Eventually, yes.

Here's another web page that I think is consistent with there being a Project Gutenberg bug:

http://www.gutenberg.org/error403.php

AFAIK, I'm human, and yet, per the above, I am being treated like a robot :D

However -- I don't want to write to Project Gutenberg too quickly. They are volunteers, and probably deluged with mostly-invalid problem reports. And they do say:

If at first you don't succeed, don't tell us, just try, try again.

And I'm not giving up on the idea that there is a workaround. As a programmer, it feels to me that there must be one, and probably one that is simple. But as I'm not a web programmer, I can't quite imagine what it is.

crich70 02-24-2013 06:51 PM
Could the solution be as simple as just running a book downloaded from Gutenberg through Calibre? I get the raw epubs that I clean up and convert to Mobi format from there and I've never had a problem opening files on my Kindle afterwards.

Gort 02-24-2013 06:58 PM
Has anyone tried http://m.gutenberg.org/? That's the link that Project Gutenberg gives when it says, "You can download our free kindle books directly to your Kindle by pointing your Kindle browser to m.gutenberg.org." Maybe they're discouraging Kindle users directly using the main site. Not that I have a clue why they'd do that, though.

Oh, sorry, I would test myself, but I haven't got my Kindle 3 with me right now.

Matteob 02-24-2013 07:23 PM
Hey yes I have tried the mobile site but it won'l load up :/

soulfuldog 02-26-2013 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort (Post 2435892)
Has anyone tried http://m.gutenberg.org/? That's the link that Project Gutenberg gives when it says, "You can download our free kindle books directly to your Kindle by pointing your Kindle browser to m.gutenberg.org." Maybe they're discouraging Kindle users directly using the main site. Not that I have a clue why they'd do that, though.
I think Gort has hit the nail on the head. I tried that link you provided to the mobile version of the gutenberg site, it loaded up no problems for me, and this time the book downloaded without any problem. It appears on the home page as the book title and not the generic .mobi filename.

SteveEisenberg 02-27-2013 08:41 PM
I just checked, and www.gutenberg.com is also now working from the Kindle Keyboard with no computer required.

Of course it is easier to use http://m.gutenberg.org/.

When this thread first opened, neither site was working for Kindle Keyboard downloads. Somebody has to have fixed something.

To review what this means: If you have a Kindle Keyboard 3G, you can, almost anywhere in the world, regardless of WiFi availability, download for free, from gutenberg.com, most halfway popular books if they were published before 1923. And when in a life + 50 country like Canada, New Zealand, Korea, Japan, China, and dozens of others, you can legally download the best books by authors who died before 1963 via gutenberg.ca and mobileread.mobi. My non-lawyer understanding is that you can then, legally, take your eReader, complete with new downloads, to home countries with long copyright periods such as the US and UK. This is part of what makes me a great enthusiast for the Kindle Keyboard 3G. I wouldn't give that up for a better lit screen.

Little.Egret 02-27-2013 10:16 PM
To summarise, there was a problem caused by PG server policy changes which has now been fixed.

See Amazon.co.uk Customer Discussions thread
Gutenberg to Kindle, has something changed?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/cd/t/Fx3I...L6EW27HDIDKZ/2

I checked that it failed (and now works) using my Kindle Keyboard 3G and Kipling's Second Jungle Book (no images).

twobob 02-28-2013 06:22 AM
Yup, I banged my head against this for about two months for a friend of mine.

I can confirm that certain parts (.txt downloads IIRC) of Project Gutenberg downloads were indeed hidden when accessed for the kindle keyboard browser (this was about 3? months ago) tested it side-by-side, on the Kindle Keyboard, and a PC: it was clear to see that the page was rendered/served out differently by the server, rather than anything the device was doing.

Hopefully this is now fixed. I have had no issues since switching to the touch.

: )

HarryT 02-28-2013 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg (Post 2439389)
To review what this means: If you have a Kindle Keyboard 3G, you can, almost anywhere in the world, regardless of WiFi availability, download for free, from gutenberg.com, most halfway popular books if they were published before 1923.
If you happen to live in a country where the Kindle 3G has unrestricted web browsing enabled. In many countries, it's restricted to Amazon and Wiki (although most of the classics are of course also available for free download at Amazon).


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