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Old 10-13-2011, 11:54 AM   #1
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Kindle Touch + Multi-level TOC

Does anyone know if the new Kindles will support multi-level toc (table of contents) like the Sony Reader? I've not been able to find an answer to this. Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2011, 12:53 PM   #2
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It is supported if the publisher built the TOC correctly, I believe.
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:18 PM   #3
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I can tell you that my K3 and my K4 NT both support multi-level TOCs. As @susan_cassidy states it does require the publisher to format the TOC/book correctly, and we all know that most eBook publishers have great difficulty getting their eBooks formatted correctly.

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Old 10-14-2011, 09:42 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by jswinden View Post
I can tell you that my K3 and my K4 NT both support multi-level TOCs. As @susan_cassidy states it does require the publisher to format the TOC/book correctly, and we all know that most eBook publishers have great difficulty getting their eBooks formatted correctly.

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Thanks for your responses, but it looks like from the picture you posted that we mean different things by multi-level. I don't mean merely indented, but linkable/clickable. Say there's a long academic book or a Bible with thousands of chapter or sub-chapter headings. In the Kindle, will the contents display all of them at once, so that to get to the last entry, one must first page through many entries? Or could it be done like in the Sony Reader, where one might click (say, for the Bible) first New Testament, then Revelation, then chapter 20--all within the Kindle's contents menu? Otherwise it would be cumbersome to get there.
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Old 10-14-2011, 01:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bookbinder View Post
Thanks for your responses, but it looks like from the picture you posted that we mean different things by multi-level. I don't mean merely indented, but linkable/clickable. Say there's a long academic book or a Bible with thousands of chapter or sub-chapter headings. In the Kindle, will the contents display all of them at once, so that to get to the last entry, one must first page through many entries? Or could it be done like in the Sony Reader, where one might click (say, for the Bible) first New Testament, then Revelation, then chapter 20--all within the Kindle's contents menu? Otherwise it would be cumbersome to get there.
The example I gave is linkable/clickable as you say. I used H1 HTML tags to designate level 1 headings and H2 HTML tags to designate level 2 headings. Each is automatically incorporated into the TOC and thus linkable. However, the Sony scheme of expanding or contracting heading levels within the TOC is not supported by Kindle. I wish it was!

BTW, a huge TOC like that for a Bible is never going to be good on an eReader, even when using a Sony. There are just too many headings in too many levels. A new scheme must be discovered to quickly navigate a Bible type of document. I believe @Sirmaru (sp?) developed one for the Bibles he formats. You might search here for that scheme. It was a year or more ago that i saw his post, so it might take some digging to find it.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:34 PM   #6
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Kindle does not support multi-level TOC in the ePub sense. A Kindle TOC is just another page in the book with hyperlinks to chapters/sections. Those hyperlinks can have an outline structure, i.e be 'multilevel' in appearance. But to use it, your reading position actually changes to the page with the TOC.

An ePub TOC is based on an NCX structure that is a separate component within the ebook, and the reading system can bring up a navigable TOC view, sometimes being able to 'collapse' the multi-level view. And you can dismiss the view without leaving your current position in the book. It is usually quite a bit nicer than what Kindle offers, but occasionally you find reading systems that only show the top level of the TOC (like Nook Touch). Probably that's what the OT is asking about.

Kindle ebooks often also contain an NCX, but it's only used for chapter navigation, and functionally it is really only top-level (though you can coerce it to navigating 2nd level also). The Kindle Previewer actually has an 'NCX view' that is very much the same as an ePub reading system. Wish they would add that to Kindle itself.

Last edited by tomsem; 10-14-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-14-2011, 07:55 PM   #7
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I wish Amazon would buy Adobe and start using ePub. It is a better and more versatile format, and there are more tools available to make creating eBooks easy. Yes I know, it will never happen!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
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I wish Amazon would buy Adobe and start using ePub. It is a better and more versatile format, and there are more tools available to make creating eBooks easy. Yes I know, it will never happen!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I like the idea of ePub, and especially the better TOC navigation, but what I find is that the various reading systems are not very consistent in rendering them, and the versatility comes with the downside that there are more things to go wrong, formatting wise. Then there are the somewhat annoying pauses that occur each time a new chapter has to load up. It's nothing that won't improve over time, and ePub3 brings some interesting things to the table, but right now I find the consistency and performance of Kindle mostly superior.

I think ePub will eventually make it to Kindle but it might take another year or two. Some of the ePub3 stuff is stuff Amazon is going to want to do, and they'll have a hard time getting publishers on board with 'mobi2', I think, especially since there's been no inkling that 'mobi2' even exists. ePub3 is going to take awhile to ramp up (well, there's iBooks, but it's just a start) & there's plenty of time for Amazon to join the ePub3 party.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:40 PM   #9
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epub (the format itself) really isn't the issue, it's turning over the keys to their whole e-book business to Adobe, which just isn't gonna happen.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:28 AM   #10
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Ugh you hit something I've been trying to figure out. I buy a omnibus in epub and convert it to mobi in Calibre but I lose the Navigation because the spine and ncx file don't line up!

The thing is I don't know how to fix this most of the time because epub's ncx file uses a text entry at the top Level and it's not link to any file.

If I leave it in the NCX file it doesn't translate well over to mobi and I loose the ability to jump chapters. There's probably a simple fix but I've yet to find it.
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