Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Uploads - Patricia Clark Memorial Library > Upload Help

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2010, 12:57 PM   #1
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
This Edition Copyright...

I noticed a lot of PD books I'm getting from the library are stamped with "this edition copyright 20xx" and the publisher has applied their DRM. In reading some of these, I believe that they've just taken Gutenberg text, applied some basic formatting, and are now trying to make some money off of it.

Here, on MobileRead, we have some very nice editions of PD books that are being posted with no copyright notice at all. People have put a lot of work into these. What's to stop the big publishers from picking them up, DRM'ing them, and selling them, making money from our work without even crediting us?

Many people have no idea you can download these books for free and they're buying them. Also, other companies are using them as promotional - e.g. Indigo told me a new Kobo comes with $1,500 worth of books pre-installed for free. Reading the Kobo books, some even contain the Gutenberg stamp - hardly $1,500 worth of books.

I'm thinking we need to start applying edition-based copyright to our library here at MobileRead that includes things like "This edition is copyright 2010 (person who posted the book). It must not be sold, used for promotional purposes, or edited without written permission." Also add some wording allowing MobileRead to provide it for download, allowing others to share/copy/format shift for personal use, etc. - let's protect our work and ensure that people know it came from here, and that we made it, not some big publisher. This will bring more people here, grow the community of editors, and increase the overall quality of the books instead of lining the pockets of the big publishers who are, for all intents and purposes, stealing our work and claiming rights to it.
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:55 PM   #2
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,129
Karma: 41205449
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
You can't place usage restrictions on something that's in the public domain; nor would I personally wish to do so. In commercial editions of public domain works, there's generally additional material such as an introduction, explanatory notes, etc. That material is of course subject to copyright even if the book's text is in the public domain.

Last edited by HarryT; 07-30-2010 at 01:59 PM.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 02:41 PM   #3
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
You can't place usage restrictions on something that's in the public domain; nor would I personally wish to do so. In commercial editions of public domain works, there's generally additional material such as an introduction, explanatory notes, etc. That material is of course subject to copyright even if the book's text is in the public domain.
Is not the formatting/layout copyrightable? I've seen many paper editions of PD works that have no new material (other than the copyright statement itself), yet they claim 'no part of this book may be lent, reproduced, etc...' - is that statement unenforceable?
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:00 PM   #4
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,129
Karma: 41205449
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
There is (in some countries, anyway) such a thing as a "typographical copyright", which has a fixed term of 25 years, but it only applies in situations where some non-trivial effort has gone into laying out the work. In most cases, the copyright message is mere "boilerplate" text and completely unenforcible.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 04:31 PM   #5
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
In most cases, the copyright message is mere "boilerplate" text and completely unenforcible.
Hmmm... This leads to something else, then. If the DRM is not actually protecting copyright (since the work is PD), is it still illegal to break the DRM? Any opinion about US law or the current bill before Parliament in Canada?
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 06:19 PM   #6
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
It just occurred to me that if a technological protection measure is enforceable for PD works, then it doesn't matter if copyright expires or not, the content publishers still maintain control. For example, all movies for the last several decades have either CSS or Macrovision to protect them. In effect, copyright never expires on any digital media. Ever. Until the law changes. Because you're not allowed to break the TPM.
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 12:35 PM   #7
Lady Fitzgerald
Wizard
Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lady Fitzgerald's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
Bsck in tyhe '60s, a lot of PD Irish folk music was copyrighted. I wouldn't suprised to see the same being done to PD books.
Lady Fitzgerald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 11:11 AM   #8
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,129
Karma: 41205449
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Bsck in tyhe '60s, a lot of PD Irish folk music was copyrighted. I wouldn't suprised to see the same being done to PD books.
If you record even a traditional song, that recording has a performance copyright. The song itself may be traditional, and the lyrics and music in the public domain, but your specific performance of that song does have a copyright.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 03:45 PM   #9
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
Interesting that I can do a five minute performance and have the ability to record it and control it via copyright, but I can't copyright the hundred+ hours of work spent laying out an eBook. My layout is my artistic interpretation of how the book should be seen and I should be able to control how it's used (including having the right to say you cannot apply DRM to my layout or any derivatives of it and you cannot profit from it).
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 04:21 PM   #10
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,129
Karma: 41205449
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricDP View Post
Interesting that I can do a five minute performance and have the ability to record it and control it via copyright, but I can't copyright the hundred+ hours of work spent laying out an eBook. My layout is my artistic interpretation of how the book should be seen and I should be able to control how it's used (including having the right to say you cannot apply DRM to my layout or any derivatives of it and you cannot profit from it).
It depends where you live. EU law would grant you a "typographical copyright" for your work. This lasts for 25 years from the date of initial publication. I understand that US copyright law does not have the concept of typographical copyright.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 07:24 PM   #11
EricDP
Groupie
EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.EricDP ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 165
Karma: 339490
Join Date: May 2010
Device: nook, BlackBerry
In researching this I found that Australia will give typographical copyright for a printed book, but not for an eBook. I wonder why?
EricDP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 04:29 AM   #12
AlexBell
Wizard
AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.AlexBell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
AlexBell's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,250
Karma: 3868800
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Launceston, Tasmania
Device: Kindle3, Kobo Touch, Sony PRS T3, Nexus 7, iPad mini
I'm working on an illustrated version of The Woman in White - the illustrations come from the serialised version in Harper's Weekly. The gentleman who has produced the jpeg versions of the illustrations says, quite reasonably I think, that though the original engravings are in the public domain the jpegs he has made of them are copyright. He's given me permission to use them for the MobileRead Forum, but has asked that a link be given to his site.

I guess this is analogous to Harry's mention of typographical copyright.

Regards, Alex
AlexBell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 05:11 AM   #13
neilmarr
neilmarr
neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
neilmarr's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,230
Karma: 6000059
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Monaco-Menton, France
Device: sony
I don't agree with the practice, Eric, but it's generally accepted that a 'publisher' holds rights to internal text design, any editing and the packaging (cover, etc), even when word content is PD ... and for treebooks and ebooks alike.

For instance, the generous Harry T's exclellent treatment of books he so painstakingly prepares, proof reads and formats is, in my opinion, his intellectual property. The treatment, I mean; not the content. The actual law is a little shady on this point, but I for one would never dream of lifting Harry's work on content and merely re-packaging for commercial publication. I can only hope that many others share this moral code.

This is also the case in most publishing agreements with contemporary authors, by the way, Ivan. When rights revert to him/her for any reason, those rights -- strictly speaking -- apply only to the original raw manuscript and not to ANY publisher input

My own wee house always waives those rights when a contract expires, and we hand over our own cover work or put the author in touch with the copyright-holding artist if the work wasn't handled in house. We also freely offer our ebook files for the author's personal use -- any use, including commercial on-sale. Others, especially the Big Six, stick doggedly to their guns.

And that ain't cricket unless there's a darned good reason on an individual contract basis. I strongly feel it should not be standard practice if a contract naturally expires or is curtailed by mutual agreement.

Cheers. Neil
Attached Images
 
neilmarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 05:15 AM   #14
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 63,129
Karma: 41205449
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBell View Post
I'm working on an illustrated version of The Woman in White - the illustrations come from the serialised version in Harper's Weekly. The gentleman who has produced the jpeg versions of the illustrations says, quite reasonably I think, that though the original engravings are in the public domain the jpegs he has made of them are copyright.
Although he's certainly in the right morally, from a legal perspective that's a very dubious claim. A copy of a public domain image is (generally speaking at least) itself in the public domain.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2010, 05:21 AM   #15
neilmarr
neilmarr
neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
neilmarr's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,230
Karma: 6000059
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Monaco-Menton, France
Device: sony
Right, Harry ... unless the content has been in ANY way adjusted, a fair copy is PD. Cheers. Neil
neilmarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sony Pocket Edition und Reader Edition auf der IFA K-Thom Sony Reader 0 09-09-2009 02:54 PM
In Copyright? - Copyright Renewal Database launched Alexander Turcic News 26 07-09-2008 09:36 AM
iRex iLiad 2th edition or cybook newest edition, help plz waddragon Which one should I buy? 1 02-03-2008 04:21 AM
Government US Copyright Office: Report on Orphan Works. US Copyright Office. PDF Nate the great Other Books 0 01-03-2008 07:16 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:21 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.