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Old 02-13-2015, 10:19 AM   #1
GHRuffo
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Page numbers in EPUB

Dear friends,

I have been trying to solve this by searching for information already posted in discussion groups, but since that has not helped much so far, I would like to ask for your assistance.

I have managed to edit most of the eBook I have written and it looks much better now, but something is still giving me a lot of trouble: page numbers. When I try to read the file in my Kobo Glo, it sticks to the same page even if I have already "flipped" two or three of them. The first chapter of my book has three pages 7, two pages 8 and so on. Although the file shows only 30 pages, it has a total of 48!

I have already tried to edit the TOC.NCX by adding a pageList to it, but it seems not to work. Specially because I have no idea on the "content src" function. Here goes an example:

<pageTarget id="page3" type="normal" value="3" playOrder="3">
<navLabel><text>3</text></navLabel>
<content src="../texto/content0002.xhtml#2014"/>
</pageTarget>

I am trying to determine this page ends after the text "2014". And nothing happens. It is probably a syntax problem. If anyone has any clue on how should I correct this page numbers problem, I would really appreciate the support.

All the best,

Gustavo
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:03 AM   #2
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Page numbers require an NCX pagelist whose syntax is explained in the wiki topic that I linked to..

Also each page number needs to be defined in the body text via an anchor whose ID must start with a letter. E.g. <a id="page1"></a>. (You can't just use the number.)

Some time ago I created a simple ePub pagelist test file that demonstrates all of this. (You can ignore the additional files in the archive; they're only relevant for Kindles.)
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:33 AM   #3
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You do realize, don't you, that even if you set all this up so that each epub page matches one screen of your kobo, that if you read the book on a different device, or even change the kobo's font size, that the page size will no longer match the screen size?
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:31 AM   #4
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I was not aware of that, Section8. In fact, I am more concerned about avoiding the same number in a lot of pages instead of having a fixed number on each one of them. Is there a way to solve this, allowing each reader to determine which page is which? If there is no way to solve this, I'all stick with Doitsu's suggestion. My book uses images, what I believe to be a relevant information. Forgive me not to have said it before.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:17 AM   #5
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ADE uses 1024 bytes of compressed data equals one page. So if you change the margins, line height, and font size, the page numbers will no change. It's not uncommon for the same page number to show over multiple pages depending on your settings/the book's settings. I don't see a need to create a page map to get page numbers. Just let ADE handle the page numbers.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRuffo View Post
I was not aware of that, Section8. In fact, I am more concerned about avoiding the same number in a lot of pages instead of having a fixed number on each one of them. Is there a way to solve this, allowing each reader to determine which page is which? If there is no way to solve this, I'all stick with Doitsu's suggestion. My book uses images, what I believe to be a relevant information. Forgive me not to have said it before.
I don't use page numbers in any of my e-books, and IMHO that is what every publisher ought to do.

That you see several screens with the same ostensible page number is probably the result of the e-reader screen's showing fewer words than the printed page. As a WAG, I would say 250 words to a Kindle or 7-inch Fire tablet "page," 400 or 450 words to a printed book page.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:48 PM   #7
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Forget about "page", think of the number as "segment" or something similar, and you are done. The numbers have nothing to do with the screen size or with the paper pages, they are something else.
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:09 PM   #8
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Cool

Since I have created the epub file myself, and no other eBook I have ever bought so far has presented this problem, I would really like to have correct page numbers for each screen that shows up. Is the page list the only way to solve it, besides not caring at all about the way the pages are currently presented?
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRuffo View Post
Since I have created the epub file myself, and no other eBook I have ever bought so far has presented this problem, I would really like to have correct page numbers for each screen that shows up. Is the page list the only way to solve it, besides not caring at all about the way the pages are currently presented?
If it's a fixed layout book or an image based comic book, you could also simply hard-code the page number in the image or add it as text.
Otherwise, you'll have to use a pagelist. (You could also use an Adobe pagemap, however only ADE/RMSDK based apps support them.)
IMHO, page numbers are only necessary for some commonly cited science books etc.
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRuffo View Post
Since I have created the epub file myself, and no other eBook I have ever bought so far has presented this problem, I would really like to have correct page numbers for each screen that shows up. Is the page list the only way to solve it, besides not caring at all about the way the pages are currently presented?

You cannot prevent me from changing the font and font size for any eBook on my device.... Which means I might read your book with 1000 pages and you might read the same book with 400 pages...
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GHRuffo View Post
Since I have created the epub file myself, and no other eBook I have ever bought so far has presented this problem, I would really like to have correct page numbers for each screen that shows up. Is the page list the only way to solve it, besides not caring at all about the way the pages are currently presented?
Every Most ebooks on the planet shows this "problem".

Page numbers are a paper book concept.
  • Kindles do not use page numbers, except when an APNX is in play,
  • other readers will often lie outright and make up random fake page numbers based on different metrics.
    • Most commonly Adobe Digital Editions' lets-just-assume-1024-(compressed)-characters-is-the-average-page-length,
    • but sometimes it is based on how many screens worth of text there are at the current font/line/margin settings. This is the worst of every world, because it confuses the hell out of everyone who sees it, and makes NO sense whatsoever.

The reason any reader does page numbers at all, is usually as a crutch for people who irrationally want them, but they also have an actual use, limited though it is... it allows people to cite content in a professional/college setting.
Obviously, the fact that it is often a blatant lie obviates the usefulness of such a thing...


If you care to bother at all about what the Kindle terms "Contains real page numbers based on the print edition _______", then you can go ahead and create a Page-map and PageList.
Being as they are designed for the sole and specific purpose of defining-a-page-number-as-opposed-to-letting-the-ereader-make-one-up, then YES, it is the only way...


(Sorry if I come across as overly harsh. Page numbers on an ereader just hit allmany of my buttons. )

Last edited by eschwartz; 02-14-2015 at 11:57 PM. Reason: edited for clarity
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:43 PM   #12
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You cannot prevent me from changing the font and font size for any eBook on my device.... Which means I might read your book with 1000 pages and you might read the same book with 400 pages...
Incorrect. If the eBook shows 400 pages, it's still the EXACT 400 pages regardless if you have your font twice as large as I do. ADE uses a page numbering method that doesn't change based on your settings. It just means that your pages may take more screen changes to read. That's it. Pages in ADE are not based on how many screens your going to read, it's based on 1024 bytes of compressed data per page. So when you come to page 50 with your settings, it's the exact same place as my page 50 with my settings.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:45 PM   #13
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Most commonly Adobe Digital Editions' lets-just-assume-1024-characters-is-the-average-page-length,
That's 1024 COMPRESSED characters. If it was 1024 characters, it would take a loth longer to open an ePub as ADE would have to parse the entire contents to find out the page numbering.


Quote:
but sometimes it is based on how many screens worth of text there are at the current font/line/margin settings. This is the worst of every world, because it confuses the hell out of everyone who sees it, and makes NO sense whatsoever.
iBooks!

RMDSK (ADE) used in Kobo Readers gives you ADe style page numbers and a percent read. So you can use whichever you want. Also, once you get used to ADE style page numbers, you do get a good sense of where you are and how much you have to go (unless the eBook contains fake bonus content (preview of another book)).

Last edited by JSWolf; 02-14-2015 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:06 AM   #14
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That's 1024 COMPRESSED characters. If it was 1024 characters, it would take a loth longer to open an ePub as ADE would have to parse the entire contents to find out the page numbering.
Point. Edited above to specifically mention that.

Quote:
iBooks!

RMDSK (ADE) used in Kobo Readers gives you ADe style page numbers and a percent read. So you can use whichever you want. Also, once you get used to ADE style page numbers, you do get a good sense of where you are and how much you have to go (unless the eBook contains fake bonus content (preview of another book)).
Yeah, but as far as I am concerned, it is pointless unless it actually refers to the print edition. I much prefer the Time Left To Read that Kindles have, because it cuts out the need to calculate it myself. Does Kobo do anything similar?
Percent doesn't really cut it for me... that requires you to keep track of how long it has taken you so far, even if you have taken breaks in the meantime...
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:15 AM   #15
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Yeah, but as far as I am concerned, it is pointless unless it actually refers to the print edition. I much prefer the Time Left To Read that Kindles have, because it cuts out the need to calculate it myself. Does Kobo do anything similar?
Percent doesn't really cut it for me... that requires you to keep track of how long it has taken you so far, even if you have taken breaks in the meantime...
But if you have a hardcover, you get one set of page numbers, a trade paperback, a different set of page numbers, and a mass market paperback, yet another set of page numbers. But with the ePub eBook and ADE, you get one set of page numbers and that's it. You do get to know about the page numbers once you've read enough ePub eBooks.

As for the time left, that can be wildly inaccurate deepening on how you are reading. Sometimes I read in bed and the time left would be less. Sometimes I read while watching TV and the time left would be more. Getting interrupted without putting the Reader to sleep would give you yet another time. So unless you sit and read the same way in that book, the time left is not always accurate.
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