Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-13-2010, 12:42 PM   #1
gastan
Addict
gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 219
Karma: 801624
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US Pacific Northwest
Device: LePan II
Screen alternatives

Just read the post about SiPix production in the News forum. That lead me to Nate's "The Digital Reader Blog", which lead me to the Nemoptic company website.

Seems that Nemoptic, a French company, has been developing screens for a while. They have a genuine A4 size screen (210mm X 297mm) either in production by a partner or production ready (the distinction isn't clear to me). It boasts 200 dpi, 8:1 contrast, and "a fast refreshing capability, without any blinking effect."



They also have a 5" color display either being producted or ready for production.

If these displays are available why aren't they being used? Why do all the ereaders seem to be using the same displays, in the same sizes, from the same manufacturers? How many other options are being ignored by the ereader manufacturers?

Based on my reading here at MR, it seems that there is a niche of pent up demand for A4 sized displays that would render full size pdf's and make newspaper/magazine reading much more convenient. I think that once that niche is met, word of mouth and market exposure would create an explosion of ereader acceptance in the business, academic, and tech worlds.

Thoughts?
gastan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 05:33 PM   #2
Solitaire1
Off-Kilter Scientist
Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Solitaire1's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,584
Karma: 11326192
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: NookHD+ & Kobo Touch eReader
I think portability is one issue when it comes to screen sizes. Although my Palm PDA had a screen that was a bit too small for ebook reading, I was able to put it in my pocket for easy carrying. With the current general size of ebook readers (about the size of a hard back book), it can be easily carried in one hand. With a larger ereader like the one above, it is likely that it would have to be carried around in a carrier when not in use, much like a laptop computer.

That said, I would strongly welcome the above ereader. The size and screen resolution of my current ebook reader isn't really suitable for reading manga. An ereader with an A4 screen size would open up whole realm of books that I haven't been able to enjoy on my ebook reader.
Solitaire1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 07-13-2010, 06:06 PM   #3
mr ploppy
Feral Underclass
mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mr ploppy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
mr ploppy's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,497
Karma: 26539687
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Yorkshire, tha noz
Device: 2nd hand paperback
Do they really need to be portable? Weight would be important, unless you read sat up, but why would you need to carry it around?
mr ploppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 06:10 PM   #4
Lady Fitzgerald
Wizard
Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Lady Fitzgerald ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Lady Fitzgerald's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,013
Karma: 251649
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tempe, AZ, USA, Earth
Device: JetBook Lite (away from home) + 1 spare, 32" TV (at home)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr ploppy View Post
Do they really need to be portable? Weight would be important, unless you read sat up, but why would you need to carry it around?
Same reason I carry a book everywhere I go. Obviously, it wouldn't be for everyone.
Lady Fitzgerald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 06:11 PM   #5
Clancy_s
Zealot
Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Clancy_s ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Clancy_s's Avatar
 
Posts: 134
Karma: 1010308
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Device: Sony PRS-505
I need one I can carry around - for decades I've taken care never to be without a book, in case I have to wait around for something. Nowadays it's my ereader.

However I expect to have 2 devices eventually - a large one (A4 would be great) for home / work / textbooks and magazines and a small one for novels.
Clancy_s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:48 PM   #6
Solitaire1
Off-Kilter Scientist
Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Solitaire1's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,584
Karma: 11326192
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: NookHD+ & Kobo Touch eReader
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr ploppy View Post
Do they really need to be portable? Weight would be important, unless you read sat up, but why would you need to carry it around?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
Same reason I carry a book everywhere I go. Obviously, it wouldn't be for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clancy_s View Post
I need one I can carry around - for decades I've taken care never to be without a book, in case I have to wait around for something. Nowadays it's my ereader.

However I expect to have 2 devices eventually - a large one (A4 would be great) for home / work / textbooks and magazines and a small one for novels.
The above two comments are the same for me. I prefer to always have books with me at all times, and carrying one ebook reader loaded with hundreds of ebooks is much more practical than carrying a few physical books (pbooks). If I'm limited to one ebook reader I'd prefer one that I can easily carry with me, and my current ereader is the perfect size for this.

Occasionally I still carry around a few pbooks (mostly comic book trade paperbacks like "The Sinestro Corps War") that are not yet practical as an ebook. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to getting an ebook reader with a larger high-resolution (and I hope color) screen.

Last edited by Solitaire1; 07-13-2010 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Remove comment redundent from my previous post.
Solitaire1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 01:53 AM   #7
gastan
Addict
gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 219
Karma: 801624
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US Pacific Northwest
Device: LePan II
This seems to have evolved into another size discussion. I did not intend that when I first posted. I am wondering why, when there seem to be other display alternatives availabe, everything we see seems to come from one source ... PVI (or E Ink as they now call themselves) This particular company (http://www.nemoptic.com/) has a 5" color display ready for production, too. Why aren't we seeing it in readers?



What other companies are being ignored by the eReader manufacturers? What other interesting, new, or innovative
tech is ready for production but ignored by OEM's?
gastan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 02:00 AM   #8
Sweetpea
Grand Sorcerer
Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sweetpea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Sweetpea's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,939
Karma: 22621990
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Krewerd
Device: HTC Flyer; BBMini; Sony PRS650; Onyx Boox T68
There were a lot of readers promised at the first two quarters of 2010. None have arrived. Only the new DX, but that one wasn't even announced!

It makes you wonder if companies actually want to create readers, or that they're waiting to see what the big boys (Amazon, B&N, and even Apple) will do.
Sweetpea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 02:10 AM   #9
petermillard
Evangelist
petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.petermillard ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
petermillard's Avatar
 
Posts: 496
Karma: 2384998
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Device: iPad, iPhone, K3 & Amazon - between them they cover my needs.
How do you know they're being ignored? Maybe OEMs have had detailed discussions with this company, but decided that they weren't able to do business with them for whatever reason - the resolution too low or that the price was too high, or the tech too unproven, etc.. etc..

Pete
petermillard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 08:47 AM   #10
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,202
Karma: 57128175
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: PRS-T1, KT, PB701/IQ, K2, PB360, BeBook One, Axim51v, TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastan View Post
I am wondering why, when there seem to be other display alternatives availabe, everything we see seems to come from one source ... PVI (or E Ink as they now call themselves) This particular company (http://www.nemoptic.com/) has a 5" color display ready for production, too. Why aren't we seeing it in readers?
Because of a crucial distinction:
Just because something is technically possible, that is, the technology to produce a working product exists, does not mean it can lead to a viable commercial product; one that can be safely, reliably, and consistently manufactured and sold at a competitive price.

Examples abound; any time you see a cool product that appears absurdly priced (say the Brother ebook reader) you'll likely find a tech that is solid on the physics side but uncompetitive on economics. I'll offer up just one:

SED HDTV displays: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface...mitter_display

SED panels are really cool in concept; they are, in effect, flat CRTs. They have all of CRT's strengths and few of their weaknesses. They produce beautiful pictures. Canon and Toshiba, among others, developed a line of displays all the way up to announcing commercial delivery. Which got delayed and delayed and eventually cancelled. Why? Because while the SED panels were in gestation, LCD panels were shipping, and evolving, and ramping up economies of scale. One generation of LCDs paid for the next generation of better and *cheaper* products. Every time Canon and Toshiba hit a price point for their introductory price LCD (and plasma, to a lesser extent) would move the market to a lower price point. Eventually, Toshiba threw up their hands and moved on.

Economics matter. Economies of scale matter. Elsewhere I've annoyed some folks by pointig this out but the reality is that emerging industries like ebooks are *defined* and shaped by the first-movers and the early arrivers and by high-volume markets.

PVI got to market first; they set the rules, the expectations, the baselines (in performance and in economics) that would-be competitors need to match. They aren't guaranteed domination (or even survival) but if they keep on playing in the Red Queen's Race of tech product manufacture (you have to run as fast as you can just to stay where you are), they just might be able to under-price or out-perform (or both) any potential rivals.

Right now, check the comments in the SiPix thread: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ewpost&t=90705

I haven't seen a SiPix panel yet but it seems their product was intended to compete with *last year's* PVI products. Against this year's product, the economics and the performance may or not be there to yield a viable product. But to compete against an established product or tech you *have* to be either significantly better at a comparable price or significantly cheaper for comparable performance. Comparable performance at comparable price, on the other hand, only works if you are plug-compatible. (Let's not forget the matter of driver chips and support chips; single chip ebook readers are coming because the chip functions needed to build a PVI-based reader are a known quantity, market demand and pricing are known, and integrating them into a single chip design has an eager market waiting.)

We need look no further than Skiff (gone) and Que (on life support) for eReader tech that is technically viable but economically DOA, as of today. Between iPad and Nook's price cut, the benchmark price both were aiming for has (apparently) become uncompetitive. Their market, if it ever existed, evaporated.

The same may happen to Nemoptics.
Or it may not.
But just because a *technology* is deemed "production-ready" by its backers doesn't mean *products* based on it are *market-ready*.

We really don't know what changed to make Nooks at US$149 possible. Maybe PVI has gotten their manufacturing costs down to where they can give B&N (and Amazon, maybe Sony) enough of a volume discount to permit a decent profit at that price point (bad for PVI competitors) or maybe B&N (and Amazon) gets enough ebook revenue to afford lower margins on the hardware (bad for *their* competitors but not necessarily so for PVI competitors).

In product engineering, designers are usually aiming at moving targets. And unless they can correctly guess where the market will be when the product hits market, they can easily find themselves with an uncompetitive product on the hands. (Samsung's reader doesn't seem to be coming to the US after all.)

Does Nemoptics have a viable technology? Looks like it.
Can somebody build a competitive ebook reader that can survive in the market?
That, remains to be seen.

Life in the tech business is anything but easy. For every jackpot winner there are dozens of almost-winners.

Last edited by fjtorres; 07-14-2010 at 08:50 AM.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2010, 12:37 AM   #11
Solitaire1
Off-Kilter Scientist
Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Solitaire1 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Solitaire1's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,584
Karma: 11326192
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: NookHD+ & Kobo Touch eReader
Quote:
Originally Posted by petermillard View Post
How do you know they're being ignored? Maybe OEMs have had detailed discussions with this company, but decided that they weren't able to do business with them for whatever reason - the resolution too low or that the price was too high, or the tech too unproven, etc.. etc..

Pete
One possibility is that this type of screen doesn't allow for adequate battery life, an issue that has long been a problem with portable electronics. No matter how great the screen is, a one hour of battery life would be a definite drawback.
Solitaire1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Okay, Are there really any iPad alternatives? Bob Russell Apple Devices 147 06-10-2010 03:40 AM
Alternatives to DR800 Mr. Goodbar iRex 19 02-15-2010 09:37 AM
Alternatives to the DR1000 omro iRex 1 10-08-2009 07:34 PM
Backlight alternatives Bob Russell Sony Reader 151 01-30-2009 10:47 AM
Mobipocket Alternatives? Louisk iRex 4 08-24-2007 03:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.