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Old 07-04-2010, 11:25 AM   #31
Tamara
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iPods are specifically designed with non removable batteries. Apple is notorious for designing products in such a way as to encourage mandate you upgrade at a minimum every other year.*
I'm not sure where you came up with this. My friend's iPod is 7 years old now and a shop just replaced the battery in it. Everyone I know with Apple products have had them for a lot more than a year or two.

I'm opposed to products with user replaceable batteries because of all the imbeciles who toss the old battery in the trash instead of properly disposing of it. At least, we can be fairly certain that if Apple replaces your iPod battery, they aren't tossing the old one in the trash.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #32
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I didn't know there was an App . Off to download it now - thanks!

EDIT: What's it called? There doesn't seem to be one called "BBC News" in the UK App Store.
In the US App Store, I just searched on BBC News and found it. According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/8596791.stm, it's only available in the US so far .
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:43 AM   #33
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In the US App Store, I just searched on BBC News and found it. According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/8596791.stm, it's only available in the US so far .

I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry with this one !!!! (another use for our licence fee)
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:01 PM   #34
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In the US App Store, I just searched on BBC News and found it. According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/8596791.stm, it's only available in the US so far .
That explains why I couldn't find it . Thanks!
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #35
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I wouldn't know whether to laugh or cry with this one !!!! (another use for our licence fee)
The BBC News site is a commercial venture outside the UK - people see paid advertising on it. It's only commercial-free here in the UK. I see that the App is going to be made available in other countries over time.
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #36
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And because of the success of Apple products with people who don't look at specs but just listen to pretty advertising, other computer companies are following in their footsteps...
That's funny. I haven't watched TV in years and I rarely pay attention to online or print ads. The last Apple ad I saw probably appeared 10 or 15 years ago. If it's just the advertising that's magical, lol, other companies are really failing. All they have to do is advertise like Apple.

I read about iPad specs on a tech blog or such.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:09 PM   #37
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A different perspective on the car analogy. 30 years ago, with a little bit of mechanical knowledge and a standard tool kit you could fix many things in a cars engine yourself. Today you need specialized tools and computer diagnosis software.
Yep. I used to fix my old Honda Civics all the time. Now you pop the hood and you can't even access anything but the dipstick.

But, I don't miss the old days, neither cars nor computers. Nostalgia is overrated
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:22 PM   #38
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@HarryT; Donnageddon; MovieBird
you exactly got my point.

I just wanted to additionally remark, that we even don't need to get as far back as a whole century:

As I know from my parents, in the time they got her drivers licenses there was:
  • a detailed technical manual for the car in the car.
  • the driver was expected to know how to master minor maintenance tasks, as replacing a fuse, spark plug, v-belt, or a light bulb
In the present times my ma hat to find out, she wasn't even able to replace a spark plug by herself as it was needed, and the exchange of a rear lightbulb was extremely tiresome without special tools.

(as a matter of fact the dificulties of the latter have been adressed by the EU demanding from the car-makers not to overcomplicate such simpliest maintenances like fuse ore light replacements, so this got better again in the last car models sold)

@ Maggie Leung
The fact is, that the builders general attitude towards a user of (you name it) moves more and more from "responsible user of a complex device" to "button pushing monkey"
they want the clueless users kept so and the knowing ones powerless.

If you don't believe it just compare a *DOS 5.0 manual (a book, thick about 1 inch no screenshots text only) with a present win manual, and ask yourself if the difference is because windows is less complex than DOS ever has been.

It's very kind of you to call the savvy ones "tinkers", since it shows acknowledgment and respect to knowledge and craftmanship. I've heard a bunch of less friendly names for that (references to bomb makers included).

As a "tinker" I'm among the lesser ones: I know very Little about programming, and am lousy enough with the soldering irom, to try more than to build myself a custom cable when needed.

And yet altough my personal "activity radius" is very limited I could name you several cases, for both, successfull attempts to help myself and/or others out of troubles or enhancing devices fumctionality, as well as failing to do both due to lack of information or physical access needed.

IMHO it is frightening, when somebody as small as I am in these matters already can reach out high enough, to feel the cage he is put inside...
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:54 PM   #39
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It's very kind of you to call the savvy ones "tinkers", since it shows acknowledgment and respect to knowledge and craftmanship. I've heard a bunch of less friendly names for that (references to bomb makers included).

As a "tinker" I'm among the lesser ones: I know very Little about programming, and am lousy enough with the soldering irom, to try more than to build myself a custom cable when needed.

And yet altough my personal "activity radius" is very limited I could name you several cases, for both, successfull attempts to help myself and/or others out of troubles or enhancing devices fumctionality, as well as failing to do both due to lack of information or physical access needed.

IMHO it is frightening, when somebody as small as I am in these matters already can reach out high enough, to feel the cage he is put inside...
I hear where you're coming from, but I don't think most consumers want control (or complexity) for many electronics.

I do respect people who have those kind of abilities. My Dad was a tinker in younger days. He repaired electronics, often for money, and made me and my brother watch, so we'd know how, too. I can solder, do basic plumbing and and wiring, thanks to him, though I don't want to do any of them nowadays.

One possibility you might consider: You could teach kids basics. My husband, for instance, mentored a boy through work. Instead of just playing games and doing homework with him, he would bring electronics kits and show him basic programming.

Last edited by Maggie Leung; 07-04-2010 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:16 PM   #40
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Wow. Consumer electronics keeping people in a cage. Seriously?


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Old 07-04-2010, 04:23 PM   #41
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@HarryT; Donnageddon; MovieBird
you exactly got my point.
er... not exactly. Cars today are much more efficient, safer, reliable, and longer lasting than 30 years ago.

So no, I did not get your point, I merely suggested it was a very poor analogy.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:12 PM   #42
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I can solder, do basic plumbing and and wiring, thanks to him, though I don't want to do any of them nowadays.
understandable. But apart from not wanting, when not in need you are "tinker" enough yourself (thanks to your wise and forseeing dad) to be able to help you out, when actually in need.

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One possibility you might consider: You could teach kids basics
True, but as the development goes the way i pointed to it' l left said tought nowdays kid, in a position where the futures adult will notice that the problem he or she has with a device is trivial or even idiotically simple to fix but for a normal mortal now unfixable because of the devices housing.
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I don't think most consumers want control (or complexity)
Allow me a little correction there: the devices are complex inside, wanted or not, (they need to becomplex to be able to fulfill their complex tasks, unless we speak about most simply tools like a saw or a hammer.
I'll go accord with you, that nowdays peoople don't want to be confronted with the complexity of the stuff they use. I'm ok with that. what nags me is, that it is made needlessly difficult to do so if someone wants to.
I'm fine with everyone telling me he never wants to open the equivalent of the engine hood of his gadget. what pisses me on is to find said hood better secured than crash-in trapdoors of a pharaohs tomb.

I can understand having it done with devices containing dangerous parts for the unsavvy, or even everyone without a detailed plan of the inertia, such as old CRTs/TVs, which had and have quite powerful condensators inside. one wrong move/touch and you re history. OK this 'd be a special case

But this doesn't justify sealing every device...

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Originally Posted by malligator
Consumer electronics keeping people in a cage.
nope, but the manufacturers.
Imagine you have something already out of warranty so you d'have to pay shipping in both directions + "repair". Trough a vent openiong you see, the only problem, isa small cable that got loose... trivial, but nevertheless unreachable. if you think its funny - well our sense of humour clearly differs.

@Donnageddon: Cars - maybe, dunno.
Computers and similar certainly not - not more reliable and longer lasting.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:56 AM   #43
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In the US App Store, I just searched on BBC News and found it. According to http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/8596791.stm, it's only available in the US so far .
If you create a US iTunes store account, with purchase method none, you can download the BBC News app, and it works fine in the UK, there is no geographic restriction in the app itself, unlike Pandora and others.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:28 AM   #44
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I'm not sure where you came up with this. My friend's iPod is 7 years old now and a shop just replaced the battery in it. Everyone I know with Apple products have had them for a lot more than a year or two.

I'm opposed to products with user replaceable batteries because of all the imbeciles who toss the old battery in the trash instead of properly disposing of it. At least, we can be fairly certain that if Apple replaces your iPod battery, they aren't tossing the old one in the trash.
I've had both types of devices. Having replacable batteries sounds good as long as you use a device. But once the lifecycle runs out, it sometimes is hard to get replacement parts or accesories. If you like getting into gadgets, proprietary stuff is sometimes easier to get as newer devices probably us the same or a similar part, while user replacable stuff normally comes in specific housing, contacts and stuff. Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-05-2010, 03:20 PM   #45
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I've had both types of devices. Having replacable batteries sounds good as long as you use a device. But once the lifecycle runs out, it sometimes is hard to get replacement parts or accesories. If you like getting into gadgets, proprietary stuff is sometimes easier to get as newer devices probably us the same or a similar part, while user replacable stuff normally comes in specific housing, contacts and stuff. Just my 2 cents
You make a good point that I'd forgot about. I had an early Canon digital camera and when it came time to replace the battery, I had an impossible time finding a new one.
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