Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Writers' Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #31
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,587
Karma: 13181086
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
I never said they should be. I asked whether this was a bad time for writers now.

Are you suggesting that some form of offshoring will heavily impact authors? I could see it impacting publishers more than authors, myself: Cheaper labor put to the effort of scanning, proofing and/or editing books; ebook sites not challenged by copyright or geographic restrictions (even if it's just because they are operating outside of other countries' jurisdictions); etc.

If you're asking whether or not anyone should care if authors are having an easy or hard time... I think the suggestion that people don't care what happens to that profession goes a long way towards answering my original question.

Your definition of whether it's a good time or a bad time to be an author seems predicated on whether or not you can make a reasonable amount of money writing.

We are in a structural deflation in the highly developed countries. This deflation is the result of computer/telecommunication technology. Many, many professions are finding their earnings power badly weakened by this deflation. Much of the current economic malaise is due to this structural deflation. Writers and publishers are being hit as well.

The "pie" in the writing business is shrinking. The author may be enabled to get a greater piece of the "pie" at the expense of the publisher, but that does not stop the shrinkage.

You seem to want laws to stop the shrinkage. Question, why is stopping the shrinkage for writers more important than accountants, engineers, and computer programmers. (Or paralegals and non-partner lawyers)?

(Widespread piracy has been created by technology, not by people's lack of morality. They were just as (im)moral in the 1950's, they just didn't have the technology to do anything with...)

Last edited by Ralph Sir Edward; 06-29-2010 at 02:30 PM.
Ralph Sir Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 03:41 PM   #32
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
Your definition of whether it's a good time or a bad time to be an author seems predicated on whether or not you can make a reasonable amount of money writing.
It's not the only criteria (or even my only criteria, though obviously most of the responders have latched onto that), but for any writer who would like to make a reasonable amount of money writing, it is a valid one, and worth weighing to answer the question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
You seem to want laws to stop the shrinkage. Question, why is stopping the shrinkage for writers more important than accountants, engineers, and computer programmers. (Or paralegals and non-partner lawyers)?
Not exactly: I'd like laws to level the playing field and better prevent IP theft... not the same thing. Nowhere have I said that we must stop the bad economy from shrinking the purses of authors, nor that authors are more important than any other group. If authors make less because the economy is bad... oh well. But if authors are making less because their property is being stolen in larger degrees... that is something to address.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 04:06 PM   #33
Worldwalker
Curmudgeon
Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,087
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
What do you want the laws to say?
Worldwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 04:13 PM   #34
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
That it is illegal to steal my IP and punishable by law.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 04:50 PM   #35
Vintage Season
Pulps and dime novels...
Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Vintage Season ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Vintage Season's Avatar
 
Posts: 329
Karma: 1400001
Join Date: Jan 2009
Device: nook STR/iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
That it is illegal to steal my IP and punishable by law.
Steve, I believe U.S. copyright law already specifies that, by granting you an exclusive right to produce, distribute or license your IP.

- M.
Vintage Season is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 04:53 PM   #36
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage Season View Post
Steve, I believe U.S. copyright law already specifies that, by granting you an exclusive right to produce, distribute or license your IP.
True enough. It just doesn't do a good job of keeping my IP out of other peoples' hands.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:07 PM   #37
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,587
Karma: 13181086
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
It's not the only criteria (or even my only criteria, though obviously most of the responders have latched onto that), but for any writer who would like to make a reasonable amount of money writing, it is a valid one, and worth weighing to answer the question.



Not exactly: I'd like laws to level the playing field and better prevent IP theft... not the same thing. Nowhere have I said that we must stop the bad economy from shrinking the purses of authors, nor that authors are more important than any other group. If authors make less because the economy is bad... oh well. But if authors are making less because their property is being stolen in larger degrees... that is something to address.

You're looking though the wrong end of the telescope. The bad economy is not shrinking the purses of people. The technological changes are devaluing the worth of skilled labor. The same for accountants, engineers, programmers, and authors. Some because the low cost of modern telecom has made it cheaper to do labor substitution, some because cheap technology has made the cost of duplication approach zero. But both are caused by cheap technology in the last 10+ years.

My point is - why is the labor of authors more deserving of structural protection than all the other sorts of labor who value has be decreased because of technology. I don't think that is an unfair question to ask.
Ralph Sir Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:08 PM   #38
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,040
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
True enough. It just doesn't do a good job of keeping my IP out of other peoples' hands.
If someone has infringed your IP rights isn't it up to you to do something about it? The law seems to be there to define what constitutes an infringement and what remedies are available.
TGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:10 PM   #39
Worldwalker
Curmudgeon
Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,087
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
It is already illegal to copy your books, and it is already punishable by law. That's taken care of.

If you could write the law you want, anything you want, what would it say?
Worldwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:11 PM   #40
NickSpalding
Addict
NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NickSpalding's Avatar
 
Posts: 269
Karma: 400000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: England...in the south, where the sky isn't quite as low.
Device: Kindle
What baffles me is why so many people think the publishing world is that different from the way it's always been.

Yes, there are more avenues for indie authors to publish their work for free (or as near as damn it to it) so everyone can get their work to the masses.

But...it is still a fact that if a book it to achieve broad and profitable success, it requires proper editing, proofing, publication, promotion and marketing. This is only available from a traditional agent and publisher relationship.

Great books still get published, good books might and bad and mediocre books don't.

Publishers and agents are always looking for original, quality books that are commercial and will sell - it's what their jobs depend on.

If you write a book like this, your chances of becoming a successful author are the same as they have always been.

I don't think the odds of becoming a successful writer have shortened with the introduction of electronic self-publishing, but if I'm honest, I don't think they've improved that much either...
NickSpalding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:13 PM   #41
starrigger
Jeffrey A. Carver
starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.starrigger ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
starrigger's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,352
Karma: 1107383
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Device: Galaxy Tab 10.1, Nook HD+, and Windows Phone
I would say it's a very difficult time to be a working professional writer. I'm not sure there ever was an easy time. (I'm not dissing semipro or amateur writers, by the way; I'm just talking for the moment about the professional aspects of writing. Fiction writing, because that's what I know.)

Traditional paper publishing is still the way most money is being made, but less and less of that money is getting to the midlist authors. (The bestselling authors seem to be doing just fine.) Distribution has gone all to hell with just a few companies controlling most of the market, so many books (my own included) no longer get decent distribution. Lots of good writers with good track records are seeing a steady decline in sales with new books. Publishers have been slow to catch on to ebook publishing, and still aren't doing a very good job of it.

On the other hand, there are probably all kinds of opportunities in the wildly shifting landscape for those agile enough, or lucky enough (and luck is a huge factor in this) to catch the right wave. I don't need to say much about indie publishing to people here, and I'm hardly an expert on the subject. Cory Doctorow, who already enjoys huge popularity, is trying his own indie publishing experiment. It's probably safe to say that the authors who also have a streak of marketing acumen will do better than those who really are at their best just writing, and who depend on others for the marketing.

On the other other hand, the explosion of new outlets for new and indie writers means it's harder and harder for anyone to stand out, and harder to sift the wheat from the chaff.

And then there's the increasing competition from other forms of entertainment. Do I worry that novels and other forms of fiction might be a dying (or at least fading) art form? Yeah, I do. I don't think it will go away anytime soon. But it seems dominated more and more every year by the blockbusters, while the relative audience for other stuff--at least for the individual work--shrinks. My own chosen field, science fiction books, is definitely dwindling.

Could all of this change next year? Absolutely. But how? That's the question we all wish we could answer.
starrigger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:34 PM   #42
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldwalker View Post
It is already illegal to copy your books, and it is already punishable by law. That's taken care of.

If you could write the law you want, anything you want, what would it say?
Hey... do I look like a lawyer or a law-writer? I can barely handle sci-fi! So no, I'm not going to try to phrase the perfect set of pro-writer laws.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:39 PM   #43
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickSpalding View Post
What baffles me is why so many people think the publishing world is that different from the way it's always been.

Yes, there are more avenues for indie authors to publish their work for free (or as near as damn it to it) so everyone can get their work to the masses.

But...it is still a fact that if a book it to achieve broad and profitable success, it requires proper editing, proofing, publication, promotion and marketing. This is only available from a traditional agent and publisher relationship.
These are exactly the parameters that are changing, making it possible for the writer to do more of these jobs, and to more easily get the book out to the masses. Question is, is that a good or a bad thing? Is putting some or all of the jobs traditionally handled by publishers onto the writer's shoulders good for writer's efforts, or bad for them?
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:43 PM   #44
NickSpalding
Addict
NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NickSpalding ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NickSpalding's Avatar
 
Posts: 269
Karma: 400000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: England...in the south, where the sky isn't quite as low.
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
These are exactly the parameters that are changing, making it possible for the writer to do more of these jobs, and to more easily get the book out to the masses. Question is, is that a good or a bad thing? Is putting some or all of the jobs traditionally handled by publishers onto the writer's shoulders good for writer's efforts, or bad for them?
I don't normally make sweeping comments, but here's one for you:

People not trained in marketing and promotion can't do it properly.

While it's true there are more avenues for the amateur to have a go at it...they won't be any good. Just like anything in life, to do a job well you need practise, training and the right skill set.

Writer's write, publishers publish and marketers market. Twas ever thus.

So putting those jobs in the hands of the writer is a bad thing IMO!
NickSpalding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 06:49 PM   #45
Worldwalker
Curmudgeon
Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Worldwalker ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,087
Karma: 722357
Join Date: Feb 2010
Device: PRS-505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
Hey... do I look like a lawyer or a law-writer? I can barely handle sci-fi! So no, I'm not going to try to phrase the perfect set of pro-writer laws.
I'm not asking you to "phrase the perfect set of pro-writer laws" -- just to tell me what those laws should include, in general terms. If you have no idea what those laws should be -- and you're the person who says they need to be passed -- then how should anyone else know what they should be?

For example, "Anyone posting spam for DVD editing software on MobileRead should be put in the stocks in the town square, with the proceeds from sales of rotten vegetables to throw at him used to defray MR's server costs."

What laws pro-writer laws do you want to see?
Worldwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fair use, security, the almighty dollar, writing and technology

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oh My! Horrible review - Next 10" Tablet kennyc Android Devices 16 10-20-2010 05:32 AM
Dr. Horrible comic book now available Nate the great General Discussions 1 03-31-2010 09:48 PM
Horrible Sony Reader Software Darryl_Gittins Reading and Management 1 01-05-2010 12:19 PM
Topaz looks horrible... AnemicOak Amazon Kindle 17 03-03-2009 10:18 PM
E-Book looks horrible Jules Kindle Formats 27 07-16-2008 09:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:35 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.