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Old 06-23-2010, 06:42 AM   #31
kennyc
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Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan View Post
I know it. But the problem is that laws are slower than technology, and the second pass is not illegal (it doesn't mean that it's legal, only there's a void).
Uh, No. Illegal is illegal.



It might not be enforced, but that doesn't make it any less legal in the eyes of the law.

Last edited by kennyc; 06-23-2010 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan View Post
I know it. But the problem is that laws are slower than technology, and the second pass is not illegal (it doesn't mean that it's legal, only there's a void).
Well, if you can trust Wikipedia a directive is:

Quote:
A directive is a legislative act of the European Union,[1] which requires member states to achieve a particular result without dictating the means of achieving that result. It can be distinguished from regulations which are self-executing and do not require any implementing measures. Directives normally leave member states with a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted. Directives can be adopted by means of a variety of legislative procedures depending on their subject matter.
Is there a specific deadline for applying a convention in the EU? Or does it depend from the political/social pressure?

The convention itself defines a lot of things, but they all regard the future of copyright law in the EU. If I understand the definition of convention, all these things inside should be achieved by the Members... one day. And this directive definitely doesn't "overrun" local laws.

Btw, there is a huge difference between uploading a book on your blog in Western Europe/North America/Australia/etc and Bulgaria. AND we are no talking about a blog here.

Could someone please post a link to an online library. I have read posts from people telling "I just downloaded XX from my local library", I would like to see how they function. Thanks
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:03 AM   #33
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I just found this. It's not (closely) related to the topic, but it gives you a pause.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LCF View Post
...
Could someone please post a link to an online library. I have read posts from people telling "I just downloaded XX from my local library", I would like to see how they function. Thanks

Here is the link to the Denver Public Library that I use.

http://downloadmedia.denverlibrary.o...en/Default.htm

basically you have to have Adobe Digital Editions or a Mobi ID in addition to your library card/registration.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:29 AM   #35
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Wow, so many misconceptions...

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Originally Posted by Geppetto View Post
Make a scan of a copyrighted book you own, create an ebook from it, then upload it on your website/blog. Let's see what publisher's lawyers will tell you, then!
Lawyers can tell people anything they want. The only thing that matters is what is said by a judge.

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Originally Posted by Geppetto View Post
That's what European Union directives on copyright say.
A European Union country must come into line with European Union norms.
If a country fails to comply with a directive then it may become subject to certain sanctions, but that doesn't change the fact that the only law that prevails in that country is the law which has been passed by the country's parliament.

Bulgaria's law may be loosely formulated and allow actions that are not in accord with its international commitments. But until it's changed, that is what the law says, and Bulgarian courts have to abide by it.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Here is the link to the Denver Public Library that I use.

http://downloadmedia.denverlibrary.o...en/Default.htm

basically you have to have Adobe Digital Editions or a Mobi ID in addition to your library card/registration.
Thanks. Looks good organized. Of course, the first step for such library is to actually have oficially published ebooks. I guess I'll just have to wait another decade...
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:33 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Uh, No. Illegal is illegal.



It might not be enforced, but that doesn't make it any less legal in the eyes of the law.
I'ma gonna get philosophical a bit, so you may wish to skip the following :-)

"Legal" and "illegal" are concepts based on values, but not on anything universal. In the classic copyright protection law, the society decided that money is the single most important value that has to be considered.
(Hence all the references for payment, commercial gain, etc)
Which is fine, but does not cover all aspects of the effect of a work on the society. For example, what about the thing (lets call it karma) that a good author accumulates when people read his words, even if they didn't pay for that?
What about the character improvements, raising of the education level and the competence of the people that does not pay to the authors but still use their written wisdom to own benefit?

And which is of more value - the remuneration of a single person or the benefit of the multiple people who ultimately cascade the effect to a considerable portion of the society?

Now, I know that intangible things cannot be measured as good as cents and this is the reason law tends to deal with Euros and not Love or Inspiration.

That said, the law then has the obligation to be extremely tangible and not interpretable in hugely different ways.
If it is not, well... then people with "good" and "bad" intentions will use it their own way.
If the law cannot touch them following its own written texts they have the right to do whatever they do, regardless of what others consider as "legal", "ethical", "fair", and other such conceptual intangible qualifications.

Last edited by Hadel; 06-23-2010 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:49 AM   #38
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...., but that doesn't change the fact that the only law that prevails in that country is the law which has been passed by the country's parliament.
....

And what of those countries that have no parliament?
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadel View Post
I'ma gonna get philosophical a bit, so you may wish to skip the following :-)

"Legal" and "illegal" are concepts based on values,..
No. Legal and illegal are what the prevailing laws say.

It has nothing to do with beliefs or values.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:55 AM   #40
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And what of those countries that have no parliament?
I don't know of any EU member nation that doesn't have a Parliament which one were you thinking of?
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:11 AM   #41
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And what of those countries that have no parliament?
Hey! Even Bulgaria has one! They even gather every week!
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc
And what of those countries that have no parliament?
I don't know of any EU member nation that doesn't have a Parliament which one were you thinking of?
Best not to feed the troll.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:57 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geppetto View Post
You are just saying nonsenses. Spain and Bulgaria are European Union countries: they MUST FOLLOW European Union directives on copyright.

You are not allowed to make a reproduction (even partial) of a copyrighted work if you don't have explicit permissions from the copyright holder. Full stop.
Are you saying there is no concept of fair use in the EU? If you quote 4 paragraphs of a 300 page book in a blog post or academic paper, you are violating copyright?

You can't legally rip a CD you own to format-shift, or transfer a non-macrovisioned VHS tape to a DVD?
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Old 06-23-2010, 01:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitearrow View Post
Are you saying there is no concept of fair use in the EU? If you quote 4 paragraphs of a 300 page book in a blog post or academic paper, you are violating copyright?
In the UK, you are permitted to copy one chapter of a book, or one article from a magazine, as "fair use". No more.

Quote:
You can't legally rip a CD you own to format-shift, or transfer a non-macrovisioned VHS tape to a DVD?
Again in the UK, that is correct, you cannot legally do those things. I don't know if it's the same elsewhere in the EU or not. Of course, nobody is ever, or has ever, been prosecuted for it. But technically it's illegal.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Uh, No. Illegal is illegal.



It might not be enforced, but that doesn't make it any less legal in the eyes of the law.
No, it's not illegal, you can't find any law to condemn it.
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