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Old 06-24-2010, 08:16 PM   #31
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Sensual, you can still get 8 tracks ripped onto more modern forms of media.

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the server interaction was required every time you used the files; e-books aren't like that
Adobe requires connection to their server to verify, but it can be spoofed relatively easy iirc.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:54 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
I'm not sure I see the analogy. To play a DVD, you still need a DVD player that knows how to unlock the content. To play a Kindle file, you need a Kindle that knows how to unlock the content. If the world stops making DVD players (8 tracks, anyone?) or Kindles, current content can't be played. Unlike the other examples you cited -- defunct music stores for example -- the server interaction was required every time you used the files; e-books aren't like that. (At least, that's my understanding.)

We can agree to disagree, however, on my main point which was should Adobe or Amazon go out of business, my belief is current content will be transferable some way -- like Samna or Ami Pro files. And the main thing is to enjoy the content in the medium term, optimised for the reader of your choice which delivers the best e-reading experience and value today.
No, it will not be transferable some way, not if you need a DRM server.

Didn't you hear about the WalMart music files? They shut down their DRM servers, and suddenly all the music files that the customers paid money for became worthless.
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/26...tting-dow.html
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Old 06-26-2010, 12:02 AM   #33
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I like epub for books, but more than that I like giving folks options. That's one of the nice things about Smashwords. I can make the book available in a bunch of formats easily. That said more of my sales have come from Kindle purchases than anywhere else. For my own use I prefer epub and txt files without any digital restriction mess.
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:58 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrath View Post
No, it will not be transferable some way, not if you need a DRM server.
Yes, I get that -- "if you need a DRM server". My question was (and it was in the quote) :

the server interaction was required every time you used the files; e-books aren't like that. (At least, that's my understanding.)

We are talking about a situation where you have already purchased an ePub, and you have it on the e-reader, and you have a back-up copy on your computer. Now, the bookstore goes bust and closes its bookstore. Can't you continue to read the file to your heart's content?

If it's an Adobe ePub, you could just buy a new reader from another ereader vendor and load it through ADE, couldn't you?

If it's a Kindle file, you have it on the Kindle and the Kindle for PC. If Amazon closes, you can still read the file, yes? And even reinstall Kindle4PC on a new computer if needed (maybe, assuming you have the software).

So, unlike your Wal-Mart example where the music files don't play every time without consulting the mother ship (and hence no ship is equivalent of "no e-tickee, no e-washee"), there is much less "risk" with current ebook DRM.

The risk is lower still since the current state of ebook DRM is so weak, practically anyone who wants to can strip the DRM as a dawdle. If Amazon, Adobe and everyone suddenly folded, I really find it hard to believe there would be many ebook orphans.

Last edited by SensualPoet; 06-26-2010 at 10:02 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
If it's an Adobe ePub, you could just buy a new reader from another ereader vendor and load it through ADE, couldn't you?
I don't think so.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/314625
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...the last person informed me that the reason no one at Adobe could help me was because I never stated what the problem was, i.e., that I wanted to read an ebook that I owned and that I previously could read with Adobe software!!!!!

When I told this idiot that he was insane as those were the very first words out of my mouth with each new person, he informed me that it was Amazon's fault.

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Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
The risk is lower still since the current state of ebook DRM is so weak, practically anyone who wants to can strip the DRM as a dawdle.
Well, yes, except for the minor fact that under the terms of the DRM you are breaking the law.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by RyanMWilliams View Post
For my own use I prefer epub and txt files without any digital restriction mess.
Text is a nice lowest common denominator, but I like the way one can embed images in an epub file. I had a couple of technical documents that needed diagrams included.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
Tried this?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/208863


I've seen a couple other converters around too.
Find me an USB Punch Card Reader with pdp11 software interpreter, and I'm happy...

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Old 06-29-2010, 09:14 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by dorino View Post
I feel people are forgetting that digital storage is just as real as printed paper. It'll last a while, and probably longer than a book. Longevity is digital, simply put. It's a lot easier to take a copy of an ebook, say, 80% into the lifetime of a storage device, and put it on a new one, than to copy a book.

The argument that books are some how more durable and last longer is just weird to me, when one considers that ebooks are able to be transferred, shared, and as a result are essentially viral.
"viral" lasts one generation, a couple at most...

To preserve for centuries a digital book you need:
- A safe place
- A safe storage
- The technology to access the medium (which, in turn, has to be preserved)
- The medium itself (again, to be preserved)
- The ability to decode the information in it (file format, bit/byte algebra)
- A reading device complete with hw&sw (which, in turn, has to be preserved)
- The power supply (same voltage, enough energy, etc...)

To preserve for centuries a paper book you need:
- A safe place

To preserve for millennia a book you need:
- A chisel
- A stone (did I say Rosetta?)
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:05 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Worldwalker View Post
Don't be too sure that formats won't be abandoned. AmiPro was once a leading word processor; good luck finding anything that can read its files today. (I know, because I've tried)
I used to use AmiPro! But yeah, unless the file is open, no DRM it could end up lost. Or even, as happened with some of my Fictionwise titles, a publisher pulled it in a particular format so if I didn't have it downloaded and saved then it is gone.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:14 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Format C: View Post
Find me an USB Punch Card Reader with pdp11 software interpreter, and I'm happy...









Not USB, but I bet you could find a serial one and a serial PCI card to put in a newer computer.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SensualPoet View Post
Yes, I get that -- "if you need a DRM server". My question was (and it was in the quote) :

the server interaction was required every time you used the files; e-books aren't like that. (At least, that's my understanding.)

We are talking about a situation where you have already purchased an ePub, and you have it on the e-reader, and you have a back-up copy on your computer. Now, the bookstore goes bust and closes its bookstore. Can't you continue to read the file to your heart's content?

If it's an Adobe ePub, you could just buy a new reader from another ereader vendor and load it through ADE, couldn't you?

...
If the Adobe server went away, no (without stripping the DRM). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:45 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by John F View Post
If the Adobe server went away, no (without stripping the DRM). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nope, you're right. The Adobe activation server would be needed to activate the new device.


You could also lose your Adobe DRM'd books if they upgrade Content Server again and you're unaware you need to migrate your books. This happened to some people when Abobe discontinued Content Server 3 support and they hadn't upgraded/migrated their books by the deadline Adobe had set according to some posts.


This wouldn't/shouldn't be a problem if they are DRM'd with password style DRM like B&N uses which is being integrated into Adobe's stuff.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:31 PM   #43
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:14 AM   #44
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So, if publishers insist on some sort of DRM then maybe what should be done is ton encrypt the books with an open source standard encryption algorithm using the customers credit card number.
This way if the publisher disappears or technology changes over time people will have the best chance of decrypting books they own. It will still be the responsibility ofnthe purchaser to keep a record ofntheir credit card numbers even if they no longer use them.
Darn!! And as I write that last sentence I'm wondering if I recorded my now don longer used Visa card that I used to purchase some ereader ebooks! :-(
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:31 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by go4thetop View Post
So, if publishers insist on some sort of DRM then maybe what should be done is ton encrypt the books with an open source standard encryption algorithm using the customers credit card number.
This way if the publisher disappears or technology changes over time people will have the best chance of decrypting books they own. It will still be the responsibility ofnthe purchaser to keep a record ofntheir credit card numbers even if they no longer use them.
Darn!! And as I write that last sentence I'm wondering if I recorded my now don longer used Visa card that I used to purchase some ereader ebooks! :-(
Don't know about anyone else, but when my credit card is renewed it always has a new number, primarily the last 8 ....
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