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Old 06-24-2010, 04:29 AM   #16
Worldwalker
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Don't be too sure that formats won't be abandoned. AmiPro was once a leading word processor; good luck finding anything that can read its files today. (I know, because I've tried)
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:53 AM   #17
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As long as Barnes & Noble sells their epub books with DRM, epub is not an open format. It's no better than mobi.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #18
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"Longevity" and "Digital" cannot stay together in the same sentence.
If you want to be future proof, you need a paper copy of that same book. And not a pulp one, a good, well manufactured edition.

ebooks are the modern equivalent of oral tradition. It stands as long as memory (once neurological, now magnetic) stands.
If Homer didn not put the Iliad on paper, we'd lost it.

So, don't bother with longevity and conservation.
Buy your book, read it, and forget it (the file, I mean, not the content...)
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:20 AM   #19
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If Homer didn not put the Iliad on paper, we'd lost it.
Homer didn't put the Iliad on paper.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:54 PM   #20
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As long as Barnes & Noble sells their epub books with DRM, epub is not an open format. It's no better than mobi.
I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of "open format".

An open format is one whose specifications are published and which is usable by anyone. HTML is a perfect example. If you in some way limit access to a specific instance of an HTML file (encrypt it, zip it with a password, store it on a floppy and lock it in a safe) that doesn't change the standard, or the openness of the standard. Open is the opposite of proprietary.

Likewise, B&N's (and Sony's) locking of epub books with DRM doesn't change the fact that epub itself is a published, freely usable format. If you want to build an epub file from scratch, you can read the specification and go to it, and nobody can stop you. A hundred years from now, someone can look up what the epub standard was and write something to read that book. The same would not be true if it was in some Microsoft proprietary format; only Microsoft knows what's really going on inside of those files.

DRM is another issue all together. All else aside, DRM is the biggest obstacle to future-proofing any ebook, even if that future is next week.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Format C: View Post
"Longevity" and "Digital" cannot stay together in the same sentence.
If you want to be future proof, you need a paper copy of that same book. And not a pulp one, a good, well manufactured edition.

ebooks are the modern equivalent of oral tradition. It stands as long as memory (once neurological, now magnetic) stands.
If Homer didn not put the Iliad on paper, we'd lost it.

So, don't bother with longevity and conservation.
Buy your book, read it, and forget it (the file, I mean, not the content...)
Yeah, and if there had been a copy of the Library of Alexandria online somewhere, it wouldn't be gone.

If there is only 1 copy of something physical, it is 100% certain it will be gone eventually.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:17 PM   #22
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I feel people are forgetting that digital storage is just as real as printed paper. It'll last a while, and probably longer than a book. Longevity is digital, simply put. It's a lot easier to take a copy of an ebook, say, 80% into the lifetime of a storage device, and put it on a new one, than to copy a book.

The argument that books are some how more durable and last longer is just weird to me, when one considers that ebooks are able to be transferred, shared, and as a result are essentially viral.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldwalker View Post
Don't be too sure that formats won't be abandoned. AmiPro was once a leading word processor; good luck finding anything that can read its files today. (I know, because I've tried)
Tried this?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/208863


I've seen a couple other converters around too.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:01 PM   #24
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Tried this?
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/208863

I've seen a couple other converters around too.
That, as I understand it, would also require me to go out and purchase MS-Word. That's a bit spendy just to convert some AmiPro files and retrieve my old newspaper columns.

It's been six months or a year since I looked, but I couldn't find anything that seemed promising back then. If you (or anyone!) knows of a standalone converter for .sam files, or anything that plugs into OOo, please let me know.
@#$@!& proprietary formats ....

Y'know, if AmiPro supported long file names (yeah, it's a Win 3.1 dinosaur) I'd probably still be using it. It was fast, slick, efficient, and exactly what I needed for writing and lightweight DTP. Sure, modern word processors can do everything, but I don't want to do everything.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:19 PM   #25
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Or you could ask an online friend that already has MS-Word to help you out...I'm just sayin'
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:50 PM   #26
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If you can get a hold of a copy of Wordperfect 8 (newer version appear to have dropped support) it will open files from...

# Ami Pro 1.2
# Ami Pro 1.2a
# Ami Pro 1.2b
# Ami Pro 2.0
# Ami Pro 3.0

Last edited by AnemicOak; 06-24-2010 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:09 PM   #27
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I have Wordperfect on a computer. If you send me the files I can try to convert them for you.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:12 PM   #28
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So, what happens in ten years when I want to re-read my purchased DRM copy of Buddenbrooks? And my Kindle or Kobo has long since died? I simply do not believe the underlying formats will be orphaned and the investment lost: there will be a solution and it could easily be the Kindle 6 or the iPad 3 or the Kobo 4. Or, perhaps, DRM for e-books will have evolved so all devices gracefully handle DRM in any case -- like DVD and Blu-ray players do today (the content is locked but no one notices).
I would disagree with you on this, and that is because of fundamental differences between DVD and ebooks. Specifically, the authenticator of the content in the case of DVD rests in the DVD CSS (Content Scrambling System). With ebooks, a device is given a key to open the encrypted content via a server. If the server goes away, then your ability to access the content protected by it goes away too.

I worry about DRM and losing out on future purchases, particularly when the content is available from other marketplaces (think: B&N folds but Amazon goes on). Major League Baseball shut down their DRM server, leaving customers unable to access the content they'd licensed. Yahoo, Microsoft, and Wal-Mart have all pulled a similar move in no longer supporting the license server for their music stores, which renders the music unusable.

In the case of proprietary content an organization owns, like MLB and their baseball games, it's conceivable that a master key could be released. For music that's still being sold elsewhere, or where the content is being sub-licensed, this is a more dicey proposition.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 6502programmer View Post
I would disagree with you on this, and that is because of fundamental differences between DVD and ebooks. Specifically, the authenticator of the content in the case of DVD rests in the DVD CSS (Content Scrambling System). With ebooks, a device is given a key to open the encrypted content via a server. If the server goes away, then your ability to access the content protected by it goes away too.

I worry about DRM and losing out on future purchases, particularly when the content is available from other marketplaces (think: B&N folds but Amazon goes on). Major League Baseball shut down their DRM server, leaving customers unable to access the content they'd licensed. Yahoo, Microsoft, and Wal-Mart have all pulled a similar move in no longer supporting the license server for their music stores, which renders the music unusable.

In the case of proprietary content an organization owns, like MLB and their baseball games, it's conceivable that a master key could be released. For music that's still being sold elsewhere, or where the content is being sub-licensed, this is a more dicey proposition.
A big advantage of the B&N ereader DRM is that the whole encryption is contained within the e-book itself. As long as you know the credit card number and name the book was bought with, you can open the book at any device supporting the DRM.
The B&N ereader DRM does not depend on an online authentication server (unlike Microsoft reader and Adobe Adept) And the books are not tied to the reader hardware (unlike Mobipocket reader and Kindle format).
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Old 06-24-2010, 06:43 PM   #30
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I would disagree with you on this, and that is because of fundamental differences between DVD and ebooks. Specifically, the authenticator of the content in the case of DVD rests in the DVD CSS (Content Scrambling System). With ebooks, a device is given a key to open the encrypted content via a server. If the server goes away, then your ability to access the content protected by it goes away too.
I'm not sure I see the analogy. To play a DVD, you still need a DVD player that knows how to unlock the content. To play a Kindle file, you need a Kindle that knows how to unlock the content. If the world stops making DVD players (8 tracks, anyone?) or Kindles, current content can't be played. Unlike the other examples you cited -- defunct music stores for example -- the server interaction was required every time you used the files; e-books aren't like that. (At least, that's my understanding.)

We can agree to disagree, however, on my main point which was should Adobe or Amazon go out of business, my belief is current content will be transferable some way -- like Samna or Ami Pro files. And the main thing is to enjoy the content in the medium term, optimised for the reader of your choice which delivers the best e-reading experience and value today.
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