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Old 06-15-2010, 06:44 PM   #31
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I totally agree with Elfwreck - I want to read on my e-ink reader not pbooks, and not connected to the cloud (I would look pretty dumb curled up in bed with my ... laptop!) And like Elfwreck, I read and buy a lot of books.

The other point to consider about cloud computing is that not everyone has access to the internet at all hours of the day and night. I realise that in Europe and North America internet access is virtually ubiquitous, but the same is not true in various parts of the southern hemisphere. I suspect google doesn't care about that, because we're a relatively small population, but it makes a major difference for me.
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Old 06-16-2010, 07:04 AM   #32
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So why should people bother with it? What advantage does it give them over ePub, a standard?
Presumably it will have the sort of books that aren't popular enough for traditional publishers to want to profit from them. So it will cater to the same sort of tastes as the fan-made distribution model, but be more accessible to the masses.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:34 AM   #33
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Most publishers & ebook distributors seem to think their ebook customers should be the same as their print customers, and they're trying to figure out "how do we make pbook buyers switch to ebooks" instead of "how do we tap into all those people who never buy pbooks but would buy ebooks?"
The real goldmine for ebook sellers is the people who are currently buying second hand paperbacks and then throwing them away, because that is a vast income that no publishers is currently getting. So far nobody has gone after that market. Most likely because they haven't figured out a way to separate those people from the early adopters who are currently paying a premium for their ebook license.

The more I read about Google Editions, the more it sounds like you are going to pay a fee to view them, not own them. Add a monthly all-you-can-read payment option to that and you will be surprised how many people will sign up for it.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:38 AM   #34
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(I would look pretty dumb curled up in bed with my ... laptop!)
I've got one of those tables like they have in hospitals where the legs go under the bed. Perfect for putting a laptop onto.
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Old 06-16-2010, 09:39 AM   #35
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The more I read about Google Editions, the more it sounds like you are going to pay a fee to view them, not own them. Add a monthly all-you-can-read payment option to that and you will be surprised how many people will sign up for it.
That's true. IF there is a way they can be read on an actual reading device and IF the monthly fee were cheap enough it certainly has possibilities.
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:46 AM   #36
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The other point to consider about cloud computing is that not everyone has access to the internet at all hours of the day and night. I realise that in Europe and North America internet access is virtually ubiquitous, but the same is not true in various parts of the southern hemisphere.
Or in education. I work in a school and no way is our IT guy letting us hook into the network with iPhones, iPad or anything. I have argued strenuously for the right and he insists the network be locked up the gills. It is just not realistic for me to expect 24/7 connectivity. If I cannot download to read off-line, I am not buying.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:02 AM   #37
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That's true. IF there is a way they can be read on an actual reading device and IF the monthly fee were cheap enough it certainly has possibilities.
The nearest you will get to that will be a netbook/Ipad type device. I would expect the actual pages to be images rather than text, so even with internet access e-ink devices are likely to struggle.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:58 AM   #38
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Presumably it will have the sort of books that aren't popular enough for traditional publishers to want to profit from them. So it will cater to the same sort of tastes as the fan-made distribution model, but be more accessible to the masses.
Except you can make ePub's of less popular books. And it's less accessible, internet connection required DRM in other areas of media has failed miserably in the marketplace. You're talking about the reasons ePub are better, so far.


Lady Fitzgerald - "Ripping a CD you own so you can use your media on a different device isn't the same as piracy. Piracy is taking something that the owner will never be paid for; in other words, stealing."

Under UK law, again, it IS identical. Millions of people in the UK steal every day under your definition of the term. We need more jails! (Oh hey, an American wanting to criminalise everyone - what a surprise!)

I get it perfectly - theft is a specific crime. Unauthorised copying does not meet the definition. That's there there is to it, you're simply lying every time you make your claim. You wouldn't be arrested for theft (arrested perhaps, but for other crimes) for riding on a bus without paying, in the same way there is a specific crime - TWoC - for temporarily taking a car, because it doesn't meet the definition of theft.

"(and someone always is, whether you have the brains to realize it or not)"

Really? So someone who wouldn't of purchased the content is hurting someone? Get real. This is a civil issue, and profit is what is important. I say that as a creator - your attitude is damaging to IP, you're driving the agenda of the private copy exemption zealots with your own raving fanaticism.

And you yourself admit, you're not even being paid to act as a parrot...

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Old 06-17-2010, 10:00 AM   #39
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The more I read about Google Editions, the more it sounds like you are going to pay a fee to view them, not own them. Add a monthly all-you-can-read payment option to that and you will be surprised how many people will sign up for it.
Yes, I agree, it'll be a massive commercial disaster zone.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:04 PM   #40
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Except you can make ePub's of less popular books. And it's less accessible, internet connection required DRM in other areas of media has failed miserably in the marketplace. You're talking about the reasons ePub are better, so far.
Accessible as in easier to find, and more likely to be trusted, not accessible as in easier to use. A bit like Marvel's online comics rental thing versus fan-made digital comics.
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:19 PM   #41
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Web search vs web search. One is downloadable in an open standard, the other requires you deal with an online propitiatory standard.

Not seeing Google's advantage here.

And frankly, at this stage, given DRM on "official" releases, people tend to trust the "Pirates" more. Their stuff simply works better, given the nature of DRM!
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Old 06-17-2010, 04:45 PM   #42
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And frankly, at this stage, given DRM on "official" releases, people tend to trust the "Pirates" more. Their stuff simply works better, given the nature of DRM!
What people are you talking about? Certainly not the large part of the bell curve. The mass-market will use DRM'd content - as we've seen with Hulu, Kindle, iTunes. All employ DRM. Most consumers aren't as picky was you give them credit for. If they can buy and use, most will use.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:09 PM   #43
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iTunes? Ha. A casual look at the music sector shows that their recovery is due to non-DRM'ed music as much as anything.

Kindle? eBook sales are DOWN the the last 3 months, a trend which is accelerating. This is directly due to the Agency Cartel, but even before that the Kindle was losing market share.

Hulu and other streaming services actually change rental prices for rental, shocker! So yea, THEY should do fine... although in actuality they are only able to serve the US and when they go pay, I expect they'll have a sub-1% conversion rate.

Your examples are showing that unless you offer DRM'ed content free, you can't attract as many users as a non-DRM service by some way. Nice proof of my point, ty.
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Old 06-17-2010, 05:17 PM   #44
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iTunes? Ha. A casual look at the music sector shows that their recovery is due to non-DRM'ed music as much as anything.

Kindle? eBook sales are DOWN the the last 3 months, a trend which is accelerating. This is directly due to the Agency Cartel, but even before that the Kindle was losing market share.

Hulu and other streaming services actually change rental prices for rental, shocker! So yea, THEY should do fine... although in actuality they are only able to serve the US and when they go pay, I expect they'll have a sub-1% conversion rate.

Your examples are showing that unless you offer DRM'ed content free, you can't attract as many users as a non-DRM service by some way. Nice proof of my point, ty.
iTunes is in recovery because they removed DRM? Really? Where did you get that factoid? iTunes/iPod has a dominant share because of the iPod dominance, no other reason. Same was true 5 years ago as it is today.

Kindle sales are down? Surprise to me. Believe me, any fluctuations in Kindle sales have nothing to do with DRM.

Hulu, other mass-market premium sites, all use DRM. The vast majority of consumers don't even know that. Same with Netflix streaming, BBC (non-US) premium video streaming and on and on and on.

No, I didn't prove your point. You're just projecting your personal views onto a wider user base, but the projection is wrong.

Bottom line - consumers will use DRM. Always have, always will.
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:24 PM   #45
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No, try actually reading my post. Music sales recovered. You cannot use a single site as your example, you have to study the market. And their market share is far, far lower than five years ago in the UK, in large part because they were so tardy in removing DRM compared to Amazon, Play and so on.

And no, EBOOK sales are down. Again, try reading my post. And no, I'm not going to believe a word you say, why should I? You've clearly pushing a very specific agenda, and despite the fact you proved my point, you're now arguing the Corperatist agenda into the ground (again).

Huliuu and...what other mass-market sites? Let's be clear on this. Youtube? The vast majority of customers notice DRM the second it impacts them. Netflix is a tiny bit player, iPlayer is free and so on.

Some consumers will use DRM, others only until it impacts them. Some will not. Others will break it. Sales WILL be lower than if you used no DRM at all. Other factors are at play as well, of course, but those aspects are already clear.

The supermajority of people willing to bypass regional restrictions on this forum alone give the lie to your wild claims. Of course there are uses for DRM, but many of them don't touch consumers directly at all, and to be viable for rentals, DRM'ed content needs to be either free or at rental prices.
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