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Old 06-19-2010, 01:06 PM   #61
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So you believe that adults should not have access to legal pornographic material? Why do you care what other adults have access to as long it's legal?
Apple isn't preventing adults access to legal porn. They just aren't allowing it in their App Store. Feel free to browse naked people in Safari.


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And of course Apple is also banning applications that provide useful functionality to their customers, such as Flash and Google Voice because they want to restrict competitors from taking their potential income. This is totally contrary to the idea of technology.
That has nothing to do with the "idea of technology", and everything to do with "ruthless business practices".

And in both cases, you are free to buy many other products that don't have these silly restrictions.

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Why do you care what other adults have access to as long it's legal?
Exactly. Why does anyone care what other adults have access to, or not, on their iPads, as long as its legal? There is no constitutional requirement to buy an iPad. And based on the comments of most MR readers, zero desire to get one regardless.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:32 PM   #62
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I can try .
What I mean by the Flash Gordon comparison is that the movie offers a very romanticised view of the conflict and the characters portrayed by the book. The war itself is pulled forward out of the background of the plot and the whole movie is about the war events. The book is mainly concerned with the characters and how the war affects them.
Sounds good, even if I don't understand the relevance to Flash Gordon, must use google and wiki
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:06 PM   #63
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As far as I'm aware, Microsoft has never tried to legislate for the moral standards of those using its products. Their corporate megalomania isn't an attractive trait, but it's far less dangerous than the pious, Big Brother tendencies of Apple. Apple sell sexy gadgets, manufactured in the kind of working conditions even George Orwell could hardly have imagined. Who are they to dictate what I can read or watch?

The more I learn about this company, the more I'm glad I have a Nokia phone and Windows on my computer.
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:41 PM   #64
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Sounds good, even if I don't understand the relevance to Flash Gordon, must use google and wiki
If I may; "Flash Gordon stuff" is an old-time catch-all expression for "Sci-Fi adventure". Stories where the focus is on the ride, as it were; not the scenery or the destination. Good guys kick bad guy rears and have fun along the way.

STARSHIP TROOPERS, the book, is plotwise, about people caught in an interstellar war. Go a bit deeper, and it also includes a commentary about citizens' roles in their native society, the price of freedom and affluence, the role of soldiers in a society, and what kind of people voluntarily put their life at risk for their society. Its trying to get us to contrast that world, that society, to ours and wonder how would *we* react. Would we be Johnny Rico? Could we?

Now, Heinlein's politics tended to be on the right side of the spectrum by today's standards, but JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you..." line is right in line with what STARSHIPS TROOPERS is all about.

In many ways the movie is a parody of the book. And in fact hardly anything in the movie comes from the book. One big hint: no powered armor.
(Understand: Having read the book several times before seeing the movie, I *loathed* the movie. It smacked too much of "nazis in space." Just me, okay?)
The Animated ROUGHNECKS, on the other hand, I really liked. (Yay! Power armor!)
It was closer to the world of the book.

If you're looking for a SF novel that is more of a space combat romp, with lots of tongue in cheek humor, check out the *free* sample chapter of THE LOOKING GLASS WAR over at BAEN.

As for Apple's censoring ways, I think they would be doing themselves a favor if they would just publish their guidelines and simply say "Yes, we're prudes!" instead of creatig these tempests in a teapot twice-weekly.

Apple's problem is they want the hip marketting image to disguise their fuddy-duddy puritanical ways. What they've forgotten is that its okay to be puritanical; WalMart is not terribly different in their unwillingness to carry explicit content but since everybody knows it, nobody makes a fuss anymore.

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Old 06-19-2010, 09:10 PM   #65
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Apple isn't preventing adults access to legal porn. They just aren't allowing it in their App Store. Feel free to browse naked people in Safari.

That has nothing to do with the "idea of technology", and everything to do with "ruthless business practices".

And in both cases, you are free to buy many other products that don't have these silly restrictions.

Exactly. Why does anyone care what other adults have access to, or not, on their iPads, as long as its legal? There is no constitutional requirement to buy an iPad. And based on the comments of most MR readers, zero desire to get one regardless.
The idea of technology is to open up possibilities, not to restrict them.

The 'porn is available in the browser' argument is not relevant. The browser doesn't have the full functionality of applications, nor the simplicity of use and customisation.

It's true that customers can choose to use other products (and the vast majority do), but that's not really relevant either. Apple knows that most of its customers have no idea about their app store policies. And of course there is no actual valid reason for censorship other than Steve Jobs forcing his own views on his customers.

Yes, Apple are not doing anything illegal. Just because their practices are legal doesn't mean people should not criticise them for ultimately doing harm to technology and users.
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:21 PM   #66
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Yes, Apple are not doing anything illegal. Just because their practices are legal doesn't mean people should not criticise them for ultimately doing harm to technology and users.
Exactly. And people such as nguirado should be able to praise them for how they feel they are approaching the issue, legally.
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:26 PM   #67
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The idea of technology is to open up possibilities, not to restrict them.
Well, that is your definition of "the idea of technology". It certainly isn't mine.

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The 'porn is available in the browser' argument is not relevant. The browser doesn't have the full functionality of applications, nor the simplicity of use and customisation.
Oh, so now we are discussing how functional the porn is? How simple and easy it is to get? Apple has to not only allow porn on their devices, but has to make it as easy as the Facebook app too?

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It's true that customers can choose to use other products (and the vast majority do), but that's not really relevant either. Apple knows that most of its customers have no idea about their app store policies. And of course there is no actual valid reason for censorship other than Steve Jobs forcing his own views on his customers.
I've heard this argument before. I think its sweet how people are so concerned that Apple is "fooling" customers, and "forcing" them to follow Jobs and his views. But non-customers like you know exactly what is going on, and are just trying to "educate" the Apple customers from their ignorance. Thanks, but I'll make up my own mind about what the app store policies are, and how they affect me. And I'll make up my own mind about what I allow Steve Jobs to "force his views" on me.
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:42 PM   #68
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You have a good point, KJK. You know that using Apple's products comes with a number of restrictions and prefer to live with them rather than without the iProducts. Fine with me. However, it must be publicized as widely as possible that Apple does stand for control, not for freedom.

The danger is not that people like you continue to happily buy Apple products, what is happening is that other companies (like Microsoft) are adopting this pro-censorship stance and in the end there will be no real choices left.

Last edited by HansTWN; 06-19-2010 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 06-19-2010, 09:46 PM   #69
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The danger is not that people like you continue to happily buy Apple products, what is happening is that other companies (like Microsoft) are adopting this pro-censorship stance and in the end there will be no real choices left.
There will always be Android!
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Old 06-19-2010, 10:25 PM   #70
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There will always be Android!
For the moment, yes. Not that Google is a shining beacon of freedom, either. Though they have done good things lately.
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:00 AM   #71
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as far as awerness and warning is concerned I second Hans and greedo:

As long as it's only Appstore i don't give a piece of dung bout that, but i also have an uneasy kind of feeling that these could be seeds from which so sweet things as the
"iNternet" might be bread - all this with guys like Jobs as "iNquisitors in charge" - nope thanks.

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Old 06-20-2010, 12:56 AM   #72
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As far as I'm aware, Microsoft has never tried to legislate for the moral standards of those using its products. Their corporate megalomania isn't an attractive trait, but it's far less dangerous than the pious, Big Brother tendencies of Apple. Apple sell sexy gadgets, manufactured in the kind of working conditions even George Orwell could hardly have imagined. Who are they to dictate what I can read or watch?

The more I learn about this company, the more I'm glad I have a Nokia phone and Windows on my computer.
Well said!
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:28 AM   #73
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STARSHIP TROOPERS, the book, is plotwise, about people caught in an interstellar war. Go a bit deeper, and it also includes a commentary about citizens' roles in their native society, the price of freedom and affluence, the role of soldiers in a society, and what kind of people voluntarily put their life at risk for their society. Its trying to get us to contrast that world, that society, to ours and wonder how would *we* react. Would we be Johnny Rico? Could we?

Now, Heinlein's politics tended to be on the right side of the spectrum by today's standards, but JFK's "Ask not what your country can do for you..." line is right in line with what STARSHIPS TROOPERS is all about.

In many ways the movie is a parody of the book. And in fact hardly anything in the movie comes from the book. One big hint: no powered armor.
(Understand: Having read the book several times before seeing the movie, I *loathed* the movie. It smacked too much of "nazis in space." Just me, okay?)
The Animated ROUGHNECKS, on the other hand, I really liked. (Yay! Power armor!)
It was closer to the world of the book.
I know this is off-topic, but I have to chime in and say that you got it in one! "Parody" describes the movie very well indeed. I also loved the book, but perhaps because I'd seen the movie first, I kind of liked it in a special "B-grade movie" way. It's fun to watch for sure.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:31 AM   #74
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As far as I'm aware, Microsoft has never tried to legislate for the moral standards of those using its products. Their corporate megalomania isn't an attractive trait, but it's far less dangerous than the pious, Big Brother tendencies of Apple. Apple sell sexy gadgets, manufactured in the kind of working conditions even George Orwell could hardly have imagined. Who are they to dictate what I can read or watch?

The more I learn about this company, the more I'm glad I have a Nokia phone and Windows on my computer.
Microsoft Windows Phone 7 Marketplace bans porn:
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/06/08...bans-porn.html

Twitter App for Zune HD Is Rated PG: No Swearing Allowed
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/12/twitter-zune-hd/

Microsoft accused of using teen, underpaid Chinese labor
http://www.electronista.com/articles...#ixzz0rMstfbDe

Foxconn and Flextronics to start shipping Natal Units to Microsoft
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100611PD215.html

Sony, Nokia express concern over Foxconn suicides
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31021_3-20006316-260.html
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-an...n-Site-635424/

Last edited by kjk; 06-20-2010 at 01:38 AM.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:33 AM   #75
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Exactly. And people such as nguirado should be able to praise them for how they feel they are approaching the issue, legally.
Legality doesn't come into this equation. There are such things as responsibility that come with power. Or have we forgotten about that? It's ok for the news(tainment) channels to spew half-truths and "opinions" as they are not doing anything "illegal". FCOL, BP isn't doing anything illegal in the Gulf if you ask the lawyers!
In the same way Apple isn't doing anything illegal with their censorship powers. This however does not make it right.
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