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Old 06-11-2010, 05:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bluesman7 View Post
Stinger, that sounds like a nice succinct way of putting it.
I guess I should never have allowed the download of all the metadata tags into Calibre but I never anticipated this issue arising during those past months.

I did the same thing myself until recently. I never really used the Tags in Calibre for my purposes, so I didn't really care what they were set to. I've since discovered you can use the download metadata feature of Calibre (for the description and cover picture), but can disable the download of tags and/or ratings. You'll find this setting if you go to the 'Metadata download plugin' section in the prefs->plugins.

Then, like I said above, you can wipe all the current tags in your Calibre library and apply the organization structure you devised within Calibre without fear of it getting re-organized on you.

So you can make Calibre work like you want it to (yay!), but it's gonna require you to essentially re-do in Calibre what you already did manually on the reader.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:46 PM   #17
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Starson17,

I guess my issue is twofold...

...Having read Kovid's reply yesterday, I thought he was saying that this present version of Calibre (since it doesn't support collections in Kindle as yet) would make no changes...

...but since I wasn't sure that that was what he was telling me, I was afraid to take the chance and lose all my work.

And sorry if you don't think I expressed myself clearly enough. I certainly took pains in trying to do so. I very much appreciate your help but I don't appreciate the apparent condescension especially when the questions are asked in good faith and to the best of my ability.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:50 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
I did the same thing myself until recently. I never really used the Tags in Calibre for my purposes, so I didn't really care what they were set to. I've since discovered you can use the download metadata feature of Calibre (for the description and cover picture), but can disable the download of tags and/or ratings. You'll find this setting if you go to the 'Metadata download plugin' section in the prefs->plugins.

Then, like I said above, you can wipe all the current tags in your Calibre library and apply the organization structure you devised within Calibre without fear of it getting re-organized on you.

So you can make Calibre work like you want it to (yay!), but it's gonna require you to essentially re-do in Calibre what you already did manually on the reader.
That's kind of what I figured, Stinger. And having done it once already, I'm hoping that Kovid and company will find a way to continue sending a book to Kindle's main memory without any additional actions being taken unless desired. (Such as by deselecting options.)

Otherwise, it will be a lot less work (time-wise) to just send the book to my desktop and drag it into the documents folder within Kindle.

Many thanks for your input and thoughts.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bluesman7 View Post
And having done it once already, I'm hoping that Kovid and company will find a way to continue sending a book to Kindle's main memory without any additional actions being taken unless desired. (Such as by deselecting options.)
I'm 99% sure you can do exactly this actually
If you untick the 'use sub directories' in the Kindle(2/DX) device driver it will just send the books to the root folder.

As far as I know, Calibre doesn't have a real 'sync' function, so it shouldn't move the files around that are already on the device.
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Old 06-11-2010, 10:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by franklekens View Post
I simply put the books on with my file manager -- windows explorer, say. On the Pocketbook I can simply browse the directory structure (and Calibre's obligatory directory structure is *not* a great help, in that respect).
When it comes to sending to device or saving to disk Calibre has no obligatory directory structure it is all controlled via Save Template under Preferences - Add/Save - Send to device or Save to disk.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman7 View Post
...Having read Kovid's reply yesterday, I thought he was saying that this present version of Calibre (since it doesn't support collections in Kindle as yet) would make no changes...

...but since I wasn't sure that that was what he was telling me, I was afraid to take the chance and lose all my work.
That's certainly a legitimate concern, I just wasn't sure if that was what you were worried about, or if you already had a problem of some sort.

Quote:
And sorry if you don't think I expressed myself clearly enough. I certainly took pains in trying to do so. I very much appreciate your help but I don't appreciate the apparent condescension especially when the questions are asked in good faith and to the best of my ability.
I regret that you thought I was being condescending. I was helping you in good faith and to the best of my ability. I was also trying to learn a bit more about this issue, and I'm sorry if you thought it was impolite to ask if you were having an actual problem. I've long known that Calibre uses tags for collections on some devices. I just don't know which devices, and not having any, it's not something I can see firsthand. I was just very surprised that some people seemed to be having a problem with collections on the Kindle when it seemed that Calibre didn't yet support collections on the Kindle. It also seemed odd that there were concerns about the new release, as though the use of tags for collections was new, when I thought it had been around for a long time.

Quite honestly, I still can't tell if there are any problems, and if there are, whether they are due to user error, changes in Calibre or changes in the Kindle.
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Old 06-12-2010, 10:23 AM   #22
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Starson 17,

Thanks for your reply. The portion of your post I took exception to was this quote of yours:

"I suspect you'll get some more info relating to your concerns if you express them clearly. Unfortunately, I'm not the one to help - I would never buy a Kindle (I dislike intentionally crippled and locked up devices with a passion)..."

It just felt unnecessarily critical not only of me and my attempt to accurately communicate the issues, but then in an off-topic rant on Amazon and the Kindle which was not germane to the issue. Especially in light of contact I received from other members who stated they understood perfectly well what I was describing.

That said, I take you at your word that you meant no insult and so I shall regard it as water under the bridge and put it behind us. I am happy to have your assistance or insights in the future.

Last edited by Bluesman7; 06-12-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 06-12-2010, 12:50 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman7 View Post
That said, I take you at your word that you meant no insult and so I shall regard it as water under the bridge and put it behind us. I am happy to have your assistance or insights in the future.
I didn't understand your problem - probably more my problem than yours, and poorly expressed. I just thought it would help to give more info. I answer a lot of questions, and when I can't help, I often ask a question to learn something. As you say - water under the bridge. Go in peace.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Starson17 View Post
I've been reading that thread, but not having a Kindle, it's hard to even discern what difficulty you are having. Are you saying you directly access Calibre's Library folders, or just that you prefer Saving to Disk first, then drag/drop? I find it hard to think of any circumstance where direct access is preferable.
I can think of one without even trying - speed!

Calibre is very slow in transferring data to the reader. It takes me 15+ minutes to send 700 books (only one format) to my Pocketbook 302.

I can simply copy the Calibre internal files across using Explorer is a minute or so.

And another quick reason. Calibre does not remove problems. Let us say you notice a typo in a book title - so you change it. If you then send out that book to your device, you will now have that book on the device twice. A more common reason is that you notice the Author/Title fields are back to front. So you fix it. What is now on the device??

No - I find it is heaps quicker to wipe sections of your device with Explorer (ie certain folders, not everything), then simply copy the corrected folders back across from the internal Calibre files.

This might not always work, of course. Sometimes you have to 'Save to disk' to get the right format - then copy those files across.

It can get very messy!
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:08 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by kgn View Post
I can think of one without even trying - speed!

Calibre is very slow in transferring data to the reader. It takes me 15+ minutes to send 700 books (only one format) to my Pocketbook 302.
Speed is no longer a reason in 0.7.2. You will have to wait the first time while it scans the device and creates a cache file to work from. After the first time 15 minutes becomes seconds.

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And another quick reason. Calibre does not remove problems. Let us say you notice a typo in a book title - so you change it. If you then send out that book to your device, you will now have that book on the device twice. A more common reason is that you notice the Author/Title fields are back to front. So you fix it. What is now on the device??
Now that the initial connection is not a time waster it makes more sense to use calibre to remove the books then resend them to the device. Just as quick and less messy since the metadata is updated during the send to device operation.

That said 0.7.2 has a bug or two that will be fixed in 0.7.3
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgn View Post
I can think of one without even trying - speed!

Calibre is very slow in transferring data to the reader. It takes me 15+ minutes to send 700 books (only one format) to my Pocketbook 302.

I can simply copy the Calibre internal files across using Explorer is a minute or so.
Dwanthny responded to this, in part - the new version is much faster to update and read metadata. Calibre now uses a metadata cache during Send to Device operations. However, even if the new version wasn't faster, you still wouldn't be better off with direct library access.

I was comparing direct library access vs. Save to Disk. You're comparing direct access to Send to Device. If you don't want metadata updates, and merely want to delete and replace your books, then use Save to Disk and save directly onto your device. I find it to be just as fast as copying files with File Explorer, plus it updates the metadata in the file and it lets you save with your preferred folder and name structure. Direct library access means all your books are in folders saved with the author's first name first, they have Calibre ID numbers and there isn't any series info.

Quote:
And another quick reason. Calibre does not remove problems.
This isn't a reason to directly copy files from Calibre's library - this is a reason to delete your books first off your device or to use the new metadata cache. Even if I couldn't use Save to Disk to save directly onto the device, I still wouldn't see any benefit to direct library access. I'd use Save to Disk locally and then copy that directory structure to my reader. I couldn't read any books without series info in the filename or folder name.

Last edited by Starson17; 06-15-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:45 PM   #27
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Now that the initial connection is not a time waster it makes more sense to use calibre to remove the books then resend them to the device. Just as quick and less messy since the metadata is updated during the send to device operation.
This is interesting! How can you use Calibre to remove books?

There is a function to remove books from the library - does that only remove them from the Device?

I am currently only learning how to use Calibre, so I am re-doing my library all the time as I work out what I am doing wrong. Currently, I just wipe the device memory, and start again - hence the 15 minute wait all the time!

For example - I am trying to workout a good way to get Series details out to the device. I have not found a good way yet, but for every attempt I have to wipe the device (or at least part of it) and start again. It is very time consuming. Even just changing a typo in the book metadata is a problem.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #28
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This is interesting! How can you use Calibre to remove books?

There is a function to remove books from the library - does that only remove them from the Device?

I am currently only learning how to use Calibre, so I am re-doing my library all the time as I work out what I am doing wrong. Currently, I just wipe the device memory, and start again - hence the 15 minute wait all the time!

For example - I am trying to workout a good way to get Series details out to the device. I have not found a good way yet, but for every attempt I have to wipe the device (or at least part of it) and start again. It is very time consuming. Even just changing a typo in the book metadata is a problem.
When the (compatible)device is connected, there are 1 or more additional icons next to the standard Library.
Each represents a storage unit on your device. You can open those lists.
You can select and Delete (right click option) from those lists.
Note: the lists do not contain as many columns as the main library. That is a clue you are deleting from your device.
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Old 06-16-2010, 05:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgn View Post
I can think of one without even trying - speed!

Calibre is very slow in transferring data to the reader. It takes me 15+ minutes to send 700 books (only one format) to my Pocketbook 302.

I can simply copy the Calibre internal files across using Explorer is a minute or so.
You won't be copying the same file. When you use calibre to copy a book to the device, calibre first creates an updated copy of the book with the newest metadata (tags, etc). It is this copy that is put on the device, not the original.

The original does not contain metadata corrections. Those are in the calibre database.
Quote:
And another quick reason. Calibre does not remove problems. Let us say you notice a typo in a book title - so you change it. If you then send out that book to your device, you will now have that book on the device twice. A more common reason is that you notice the Author/Title fields are back to front. So you fix it. What is now on the device??
Two copies. This is by design. Some people would be most unhappy if calibre started deleting books off their device without some explicit request on their part.

I do understand the issue, but I haven't been able to find a way to 'clean' without running the risk of cleaning too much. What I am doing now is looking for a way to distinguish between the copies to make finding the one(s) to delete easier. Perhaps a modified date in the device view would work?

(Edit: There is a date in the device view. It is the date the book was put on the device, not the date the book was modified. Perhaps this is good enough?)

Last edited by chaley; 06-16-2010 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Note that a date is already on the device view
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