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Old 06-15-2010, 03:15 AM   #16
Moejoe
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This is my favourite one:

Will PubIt! support publishers based outside the U.S.?

Yes, as long as you have U.S. rights for your titles and have a U.S. bank account and a U.S. credit card.

---

Last time I checked there weren't a terribly large number of non-US residents who had US Bank Accounts and Credit Cards. FAIL.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:16 AM   #17
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ebooks should be global, all this localised copyright rubish really tees me off and not just because I'm in China and its really hard to get good books here. I will never use an online bookstore in an capacity (as author or reader) when they wantonly refuse to exercise the international nature of the internet. I just don't understand why they don't want to expand their customer base?
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:19 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
ebooks should be global, all this localised copyright rubish really tees me off and not just because I'm in China and its really hard to get good books here. I will never use an online bookstore in an capacity (as author or reader) when they wantonly refuse to exercise the international nature of the internet. I just don't understand why they don't want to expand their customer base?
Because they're desperately trying to prop up an old business model that's doomed to failure in the modern world. Then again, there's a lot of ignorant people who will buy products with DRM and geographic restrictions, so they're as much to blame for this mess as any of these corporate behemoths.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
Because they're desperately trying to prop up an old business model that's doomed to failure in the modern world. Then again, there's a lot of ignorant people who will buy products with DRM and geographic restrictions, so they're as much to blame for this mess as any of these corporate behemoths.
Yes, I'd understand the logic if they were trying to sell one thing in one country and then the same thing again to the same people in another country but B&N aren't even doing that. There's a whole world of people out there to sell stuff too and they're just ignoring them even before we get to the issue of DRM. It's really pathetic.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:05 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Blue Tyson View Post
Complicated? Hardly. Cheques? Decades old technology. Money orders, similarly. Bank drafts, same. EFT, a bit newer, but definitely not difficult.

Paypal, newer still but pretty simple, too.

Sure, maybe a year ago - but why deliberately handicap yourself, unless you want to?

As you point out, these big American chain booksellers are hardly models of competence.
ITINs, 'international author' status, W38 forms, 30% tax withholding mandated by the IRS... and that's only the extra paperwork I know about.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:15 AM   #21
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Complicated? Hardly. Cheques? Decades old technology. Money orders, similarly. Bank drafts, same. EFT, a bit newer, but definitely not difficult.

Paypal, newer still but pretty simple, too.
What would you do with a check in US dollars? It may cost more to prepare, ship and deposit it than it's face value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
This is my favourite one:

Last time I checked there weren't a terribly large number of non-US residents who had US Bank Accounts and Credit Cards. FAIL.
There are thousands of Brits visiting Florida with US bank accounts all non-residents. There are even more undocumented Mexicans with US bank accounts. In fact, it is easier for a non-resident to open an account in US than in their own countries. One caveat is that you probably need to do it in person.

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Originally Posted by webba84 View Post
ebooks should be global, all this localised copyright rubish really tees me off and not just because I'm in China and its really hard to get good books here.
Perhaps, the reason has to do with each individual country's laws and restrictions than with the retailer's unwillingness.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:20 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post

There are thousands of Brits visiting Florida with US bank accounts all non-residents. There are even more undocumented Mexicans with US bank accounts. In fact, it is easier for a non-resident to open an account in US than in their own countries. One caveat is that you probably need to do it in person.
So I have to come to a country I have absolutely zero interest in ever visiting, which at the very least is an expensive eight hour flight away, open a bank account in that same country and somehow acquire a credit card at the same time, all so I can have some stupid DRM pushing company peddle my fiction on their digital store front? Please. Kafka died a long time ago, I don't need a corporation re-enacting the Trial just so I can reach an artificially restricted audience.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
So I have to come to a country I have absolutely zero interest in ever visiting, which at the very least is an expensive eight hour flight away, open a bank account in that same country and somehow acquire a credit card at the same time, all so I can have some stupid DRM pushing company peddle my fiction on their digital store front? Please. Kafka died a long time ago, I don't need a corporation re-enacting the Trial just so I can reach an artificially restricted audience.
The bank policies and procedures would be the same (or most likely worse) for me if I wanted to open an account in your country.

The reason for opening the bank account was not considered or relevant to my post. You claimed it was unheard of and I posted otherwise.

Your other issues are best dealt by contacting the offending parties and local legal counsel. Good day.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:59 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
The bank policies and procedures would be the same (or most likely worse) for me if I wanted to open an account in your country.

The reason for opening the bank account was not considered or relevant to my post. You claimed it was unheard of and I posted otherwise.

Your other issues are best dealt by contacting the offending parties and local legal counsel. Good day.
Why are you lying? I never claimed it was 'unheard of' I said:

Last time I checked there weren't a terribly large number of non-US residents who had US Bank Accounts and Credit Cards. FAIL.

I stand by that statement one hundred percent.

And of course it would be hard for you to open a bank account in my country, it's hard enough for me as a citizen to open one. I'm failing to see your logic here or even why you're replying. B&N are putting up artificial barriers to doing business with them as a writer (not to mention the artificial barriers as a customer but that's another argument). That's my complaint. That's what irked me, and you just come back with lies? What's up with you?
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moejoe View Post
B&N are putting up artificial barriers to doing business with them as a writer (not to mention the artificial barriers as a customer but that's another argument). That's my complaint.
B&N are making (from their point of view) reasonable restrictions to simplify setting up a new business for them. The US market for English language books is larger and simpler for them than other markets.

It is complicated for a company to arrange to pay citizens of other countries, when you take into account the actual method of payment, the currency the agreement is negotiated in, the tax and reporting implications and so on. By requiring the US bank account and registration they shift those issues to the author rather than them.

They may decide that once the business is up and running it will be worth their time taking this trouble, it is more likely that they will set up local bookstores in other countries, and then arrange cross-company agreements.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
B&N are making (from their point of view) reasonable restrictions to simplify setting up a new business for them. The US market for English language books is larger and simpler for them than other markets.

It is complicated for a company to arrange to pay citizens of other countries, when you take into account the actual method of payment, the currency the agreement is negotiated in, the tax and reporting implications and so on. By requiring the US bank account and registration they shift those issues to the author rather than them.
Agreed. This isn't a matter of B&N having it in for "all those furriners." It's a matter of difficult legal and financial arrangements, different for each country, that have to be managed where they were never managed before. If you think things suck now, imagine what things would be like if they just opened the floodgates: Erroneous payments, no books delivered, no way to get recompense from foreign governments; it would not be pretty.

It was always hoped that a truly global marketplace would work out some form of truly global payment system... but we're clearly not there yet. So give them time to work things out.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:06 AM   #27
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Perhaps, the reason has to do with each individual country's laws and restrictions than with the retailer's unwillingness.
Trust me on this, draconian copyright laws are not a feature of living in China. It's one of the reasons I like this place. It's just in this case, B&N don't care enough to make it happen but I digress slightly. I didn't actually mean to imply it's the company's fault that it's so ridiculously hard to sell books internationally, I just meant that it shouldn't be that hard. Multinational Corporations have been around how long? International banking? The internet? It's high time culture superseded country.

One more thing, there are B&N bookstores in the UK, Hong Kong, Australia and who knows where else. But their ebooks, the ones delivered on the technology that can send them anywhere on the face of the planet and even at least once place not on the face of the planet, are only available in the US. Talk about irony.

Last edited by webba84; 06-15-2010 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:07 AM   #28
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Trust me on this, draconian copyright laws are not a feature of living in China.
We know. That's why China, as well as other countries, has such a reputation for stealing and reproducing foreign content and products, in violation of international copyright laws. (A fair or bad rep? I'm not judging, I'm just saying.) It's this lawless environment that is holding up much of potential commerce... a lack of agreement and fair dealing. Until that changes, expect countries to have a hard time sharing goods and services, including ebooks.

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One more thing, there are B&N bookstores in the UK, Hong Kong, Australia and who knows where else. But their ebooks, the ones delivered on the technology that can send them anywhere on the face of the planet and even at least once place not on the face of the planet, are only available in the US. Talk about irony.
I'll grant you that: Any business that has a multi-country presence should be expected to sell at least the same products in e that they sell in p. I imagine it's only an expected lack of profit, and/or resistance from local print-based book producers and sellers, that delays such efforts in other countries, just as they have in the U.S.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:37 AM   #29
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ITINs, 'international author' status, W38 forms, 30% tax withholding mandated by the IRS... and that's only the extra paperwork I know about.

Right, so you are suggesting the people at Barnes and Noble are too stupid to either type in bank account numbers or fill in paperwork? The latter being largely the person getting the money's problem.

Both of which of course are things the 13 year old child of a milk bar owner could manage.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:56 AM   #30
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Right, so you are suggesting the people at Barnes and Noble are too stupid to either type in bank account numbers or fill in paperwork? The latter being largely the person getting the money's problem.
It is being suggested that it is reasonable decision for them to make that at this stage of their business that the extra administration required for them to manage this is not worth the expected small benefit from selling self-published books by non-US authors to the US market.
That doesn't make them stupid.
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