Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-09-2010, 08:42 PM   #1
advocate2
My Kingdom for Karma
advocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the rough
 
advocate2's Avatar
 
Posts: 431
Karma: 7125
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Device: Sony 350, 650, 950, Nook Color
Copyright length in various countries

My recollection is that copyright is a contract, of sorts, between the holder and the government whereby the government grants protection in exchange for the protected work eventually coming into the public domain.

Another poster started a discussion about a site that posts books that are still in copyright in the US, and perhaps in Canada. I recall that in the last decade the US extended the copyright period to life in being from 50 to 75 or 100 years. I know the time period is substantially less in Canada. I gather that Australia also has a shorter period that the US. Are there treaties between nations about this? If so, what is the shortest length any Nation can have and still be part of a treaty?

My primary question is this, If there is a nation whose laws are very short (say 5 or 10years after death of author) would it be permitted to discuss that here since it might be illegal in the US and Canada?

Last edited by advocate2; 05-09-2010 at 08:44 PM.
advocate2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 03:35 AM   #2
bevdeforges
Addict
bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bevdeforges ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
bevdeforges's Avatar
 
Posts: 285
Karma: 1094000
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Essonne, France
Device: Sony PRS600B; Sony 350; Sony T-2
The Berne Convention is the big international treaty concerned with literary copyright. There are a bunch of other treaties dealing with other forms of copyright.

As with most international treaties, each country kind of "does its own thing" within the broadest possible interpretation of the treaty terms. There's a a nice, short article on the Berne Convention over on Wikipedia.
bevdeforges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 09:44 AM   #3
advocate2
My Kingdom for Karma
advocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the roughadvocate2 is a jewel in the rough
 
advocate2's Avatar
 
Posts: 431
Karma: 7125
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Las Vegas
Device: Sony 350, 650, 950, Nook Color
thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Good old Wikipedia led me to the following link which gives a country by country breakdown:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...pyright_length

The shortest length of copyright appears to be life in being plus 25 years. Given that it is legal to post a pre-1985 book in those countries, is a US reader breaking the law if he or she downloads a book from a server in one of those countries? I am somewhat confused as to what is legal and what is illegal.
advocate2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 11:07 AM   #4
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,006
Karma: 42472847
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Kobo H2O, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by advocate2 View Post
The shortest length of copyright appears to be life in being plus 25 years. Given that it is legal to post a pre-1985 book in those countries, is a US reader breaking the law if he or she downloads a book from a server in one of those countries?
Yes. When you are in the US, US law is what applies to you. If you were to travel to that country, and download the book from there, that would be legal. You could even bring it home with you, and you'd still be fine. But, as far as downloading is concerned, it's your location that determines what laws apply to you, not the location of the server.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 12:24 PM   #5
calvin-c
Guru
calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 756
Karma: 1575310
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Moon+ Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by advocate2 View Post
My recollection is that copyright is a contract, of sorts, between the holder and the government whereby the government grants protection in exchange for the protected work eventually coming into the public domain.
Actually, copyright is more analogous to a property title than to a contract. It's not an exact analogy of course, but nothing ever is.
calvin-c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 05:53 PM   #6
Shaggy
Wizard
Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Shaggy ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Shaggy's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,293
Karma: 529619
Join Date: May 2007
Device: iRex iLiad, DR800SG
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Yes. When you are in the US, US law is what applies to you. If you were to travel to that country, and download the book from there, that would be legal. You could even bring it home with you, and you'd still be fine. But, as far as downloading is concerned, it's your location that determines what laws apply to you, not the location of the server.
That's my understanding as well. If you take your computer to another country and download the file, then return home with it, it's legal. If you do the same exact thing but without leaving your house, it's illegal.

Completely retarded, but that's not surprising given the state of copyright law.
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 06:22 PM   #7
pwalker8
Wizard
pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pwalker8 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,585
Karma: 4873778
Join Date: Dec 2006
Device: Sony PRS-500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy View Post
That's my understanding as well. If you take your computer to another country and download the file, then return home with it, it's legal. If you do the same exact thing but without leaving your house, it's illegal.

Completely retarded, but that's not surprising given the state of copyright law.
Actually, I think that it depends on how creative the local prosecutor wants to be. I don't believe that it's settled law. If you do download ebooks from another country, I rather doubt anyone will come after you (unlike movies or music), but arguably it's the same as trying to bring an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted book into the USA, if they spot it, they will confiscate it. There have been cases of people getting computers confiscated because customs thought there was pirated movies or music on it.
pwalker8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 06:38 PM   #8
Elfwreck
Grand Sorcerer
Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Elfwreck ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Elfwreck's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,142
Karma: 24387938
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SF Bay Area, California, USA
Device: Clié; PRS-505; EZR Pocket Pro, PRS-600, Kobo Mini
Quote:
Originally Posted by advocate2 View Post
The shortest length of copyright appears to be life in being plus 25 years. Given that it is legal to post a pre-1985 book in those countries, is a US reader breaking the law if he or she downloads a book from a server in one of those countries? I am somewhat confused as to what is legal and what is illegal.
Nobody's sure.
It's unclear if *downloading* is illegal, or if uploading is. If they're uploaded to a legal country's servers, the only potential crime could be some variant of "inciting" copyright violation, which would be hard to prove.

Whether downloading is a crime/tort depends on some fuzzy things; several criminal copyright laws mention a minimum number of copies before the penalties kick in.

§ 602. Infringing importation or exportation of copies or phonorecords
(1) Importation.—Importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement...
(3) Exceptions.—This subsection does not apply to—
(B) importation or exportation, for the private use of the importer or exporter and not for distribution, by any person with respect to no more than one copy or phonorecord of any one work at any one time....
That said--before we get into another 20-page thread about the vaguaries of copyright law--Mobileread doesn't prevent links to places that provide ebooks that are legal where they're provided. It allows Canadian-hosted ebooks that aren't PD in the US, and has a separate server for US-hosted ebooks that aren't PD in other places, and we're welcome to discuss Project Gutenberg Australia & provide links to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
There have been cases of people getting computers confiscated because customs thought there was pirated movies or music on it.
But this would be a case of acquiring something that was entirely legal in the other country, just not legal to distribute in the US. It's legal to *own* in the US, just not legal for that provider to distribute it here. Should be on par with buying a suit in a shop in Canada that doesn't have a business license in New York--it was legal where you acquired it; it's legal to own in the US; it just isn't legal for the seller to sell it in the US.
Elfwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2010, 06:49 PM   #9
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
You could even bring it home with you, and you'd still be fine.
The kicker there, of course, being proof.
DawnFalcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 07:12 AM   #10
Iphinome
Paladin of Eris
Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Iphinome ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Iphinome's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,755
Karma: 9397759
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USAland
Device: Kindle 1, Kindle 4b, Nexus 7
An addendum to Elfwreck's post from customs and border patrol.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/va...restricted.xml

Quote:
Trademarked and Copyrighted Articles
CBP enforces laws relating to the protection of trademarks and copyrights. Articles that infringe a federally registered trademark or copyright or copyright protected by the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works are subject to detention and/ or seizure. Infringing articles may consist of articles that use a protected right without the authorization of the trademark or copyright owner or articles that copy or simulate a protected right.

Articles bearing marks that are counterfeit or inappropriately using a federally registered trademark are subject to seizure and forfeiture. The importation of articles intended for sale or public distribution bearing counterfeit marks may subject an individual to a civil fine if the registered trademark has also been recorded with CBP. Articles bearing marks that are confusingly similar to a CBP recorded registered trademark, and restricted gray market articles (goods bearing genuine marks not intended for U.S. importation for which CBP granted gray market protection) are subject to detention and seizure.

However, travelers arriving in the United States may be permitted an exemption and allowed to import one article of each type, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and is not for sale.

This exemption may be granted not more than once every 30 days. The arriving passenger may retain one article of each type accompanying the person. For example, an arriving person who has three purses, whether each bears a different infringing trademark, or whether all three bear the same infringing trademark, is permitted only one purse. If the article imported under the personal exemption provision is sold within one year after the date of importation, the article or its value is subject to forfeiture.

In regard to copyright infringement, articles that are determined by CBP to be clearly piratical of a protected copyright, i.e., unauthorized articles that are substantially similar to a material protected by a copyright, are subject to seizure. A personal use exemption for articles, similar to that described above also applies to copyrighted articles for the personal, non-commercial use of the importer and are not for sale or distribution.

You may bring back genuine trademarked and copyrighted articles (subject to duties). Products subject to copyright protection most commonly imported include software on CD-ROMs, sound recordings, toys, stuffed animals, clothing with cartoon characters, videotapes, DVDs, music CDs and books. Products subject to trademark protection most commonly imported include handbags and accessories, and clothing.
And a side note to some people trying to mislabel things, the word they use is infringement.
Iphinome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 09:42 AM   #11
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,006
Karma: 42472847
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Kobo H2O, N7
That, however, is referring to so-called "pirated" goods, which are an entirely different matter. For example, the final Sherlock Holmes book, "The Case-book of Sherlock Holmes" is still under copyright protection in the US, even though it's in the public domain virtually everywhere else in the world. I can perfectly legally bring a public domain copy of this book with me from the UK to the USA, even though it wouldn't be legal for me to download it in the USA.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 10:53 AM   #12
Hamlet53
Empress Dowager Cixi
Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hamlet53's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,758
Karma: 45944891
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9"
I find it the statement of law regarding importation of copyright material into the U.S. Interesting. Like so much current law dealing with the issue it was clearly written when actual hard goods, e.g. music CD's, were the issue. For a digital e-book file on a computer drive how one determine that is, or is not, for personal use only and not for sale or distribution? Never mind the fact that anyone with half a brain would know to change a file name from say twilight.epub to mynotes.txt.
Hamlet53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 02:05 PM   #13
calvin-c
Guru
calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.calvin-c ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 756
Karma: 1575310
Join Date: Jul 2009
Device: Moon+ Pro
Customs law is almost as vague & contradictory as copyright law, either lacking definitions (such as what constitutes personal use) or with definitions that allow easy circumvention. Their approach is often to seize questionable goods & let you sue for recovery but, as with most law enforcement, whether or not to actually enforce a law is up to the individual officer. (I.e. if they don't want to enforce the law then they simply "don't notice" the violation.)
calvin-c is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of countries and there copyright lengths thinkpad Upload Help 0 10-08-2010 01:55 PM
.7.5 - Zero Length Zips edbro Calibre 2 06-27-2010 05:22 PM
length of ebooks? poshm Writers' Corner 20 11-17-2009 10:30 AM
In Copyright? - Copyright Renewal Database launched Alexander Turcic News 26 07-09-2008 09:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.