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Old 04-08-2010, 09:43 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by schmolch View Post
Eye-Strain is caused by:
- too much brightness. Your screen should not be much brighter than your Surroundings.
That is the whole point of using E-ink. E-ink display cannot be much brighter than your surroundings because all light sources of E-ink display are diffuse reflections.

Actually, eye-strain is caused by the inconsistency between the display and your surroundings. That include not only brightness, but also colors.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:06 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Magnesus View Post
The reason is that you are getting older. It's normal and has nothing to do with screens you use or not use. Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyopia.
And if you are younger that let's say 25 and it's myopia - then the reason for it is genetic or past trauma. Screens cannot change the shape of the eyeballs. I have myopia in one eye only - maybe I was reading and using CRT with only one eye open. /s

For me LCD is not good for reading. It's not even close to being good. I have good light in my workplace and at home (behind me), I set the brightness to optimal one and it's still causing eye strain.
On e-paper - even when I read books for like 16 hours a day, for several days - i have no eye strain whatsoever.
This is so true... Since reading on my backlit palm over the last 5 years my eyesight has gotten much better.. In fact, I can now drive legally without glasses. I've had glasses since I was 11, I'm now 60. The only glasses I need now are reading glasses.

My house has poor lighting, and I read on my kindle during the day, but after dark I read on my backlit iPod.

The last time I experienced eyestrain was, while reading a paperback with too small font - rather dark paper (yellowish)... I gave up reading novels altogether until I got my Palm.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:21 AM   #63
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If you read with a LCD screen, you don't add anything to your body. You don't inhale, sniff, inject, etc. anything.
That's not quite true. Every LCD monitor act like flashlight in dark room despite of the brightest. LCD monitors exactly like CRT monitors bеam unnatural light directly into your eyes. It's the same as to watch into flashlight and don't tell me this is safe for the eyes.

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Old 04-08-2010, 10:22 AM   #64
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Whether or not LCD causes eye strain is completely moot for me. I simply find it uncomfortable to read on LCD. I don't know what causes the discomfort (and I've tried lowering brightness, etc.). I used to read on a PDA, and I've tried reading on my phone, but I could only ever manage a little bit at a time.

I spend much of the day at a computer screen, and that doesn't really bother me. I put that down to the nature of the reading. When reading in short bursts and constantly shifting focus and interacting I don't feel any discomfort (though I do occasionally get tired eyes, but that is possibly the harsh lights). But trying to read anything longer than medium-lenght article just feels so wrong that I usually have to stop before I've finished.

However on e-ink I can keep reading for quite a long time. It just feels more natural.

I'd love to see some proper scientific study on this, but I will use whatever device works best for me.

But I think people have different preferences and different eyes. To say that LCD is as good for reading as e-ink is dismissing the fact that some people cannot bear to read on LCD. And to say that LCD is damaging to one's eyesight is overlooking the fact that there is no scientific data to back that up (that I'm aware of).

There is plenty of technology on the way that makes this moot anyway. Pixel QI's screen apparently looks comparable to e-ink when in that mode and like full colour LCD when in LCD mode. The company that makes Kindle screens has apparently got colour e-ink with refresh rates capable of high enough framerates to emulate video.

These displays are probably going to make LCD obsolete for any portable device due to their efficiency and flexibility. I certainly will be thinking twice before buying any device with an LCD screen in the coming year.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:02 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schmolch View Post
Can you give a reason why the spectrum of CFLs or LEDs should add eye-strain compared to sunlight?
Human eyes are evolved to work with the spectrum of sunlight. You realise that full spectrum lighting is a major productivity enhancer in offices, right?
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:21 AM   #66
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The backlit bit has never bothered me, it's the amount of light. Turn the brightness down and I can read off a backlit screen for hours on end. Dark backgrounds with lighter text helps immensely. Anecdotal evidence, but good enough to convince my eyes, apparently.
I had searched the web for FACTS on this and found very little researched bases info (on either side)....until I found a presentation by a Microsoft researcher. It was his presentation that said "there is no difference between reflected light and direct light" and to "adjust the monitor light to match the ambient light" (which reflected books/eInk screens so).

So when I got my iPad -- and my eyes SCREAMED -- I tried what the researcher suggested. Lo and behold, no more eye strain.

Nonny
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:59 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by leebase View Post
It was his presentation that said "there is no difference between reflected light and direct light"
This is exactly right: To the eye, light is light. It really doesn't react differently whether the light is reflected, or projected.

Eye muscles react to light intensity, to distance, to object clarity, and to differences between the point being focused on and the surrounding visual data... all of those elements cause the eye muscles to work to compensate for them. The more the eye muscles have to work, the more fatigue those eye muscles feel.

Everyone's eyes are different, and some eyes react more to one stimulus than to others. To some, the lack of contrast in e-ink screens can be as fatiguing as the wrong light intensity on an LCD screen. That's just one reason why some people can read more comfortably on an LCD screen than an e-ink screen, and there are others.

To reiterate my earlier point, any claim that one display technology is better than the other is purely subjective. What works for you, works for you.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Steve Jordan View Post
Everyone's eyes are different, and some eyes react more to one stimulus than to others.
True, everyone's eyes are different... Yet, the distribution of differences is not uniform, and, statistically speaking, it appears that majority prefers eInk stimuli.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:29 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by searcher View Post
That's not quite true. Every LCD monitor act like flashlight in dark room despite of the brightest. LCD monitors exactly like CRT monitors bеam unnatural light directly into your eyes. It's the same as to watch into flashlight and don't tell me this is safe for the eyes.

If your room is so dark that the lcd acts like a flashlight -- then you are going to have eye strain reading a BOOK let alone an eInk screen.

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Old 04-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #70
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That's not quite true. Every LCD monitor act like flashlight in dark room despite of the brightest. LCD monitors exactly like CRT monitors bеam unnatural light directly into your eyes. It's the same as to watch into flashlight and don't tell me this is safe for the eyes.

It might be the same as looking into a dim flashlight if you leave the brightness up all the way and use a white background with black text.

It's not where near that bad if you keep the backlighting to the proper levels for the conditions you're reading in. Use a darker background like sepia etc.

I get that e-ink is great, especially for people like the guy above who mentioned reading 16 hours a day etc. With super heavy reading, even minimal differences in eye strain add up, and it's important to read on what ever gives the least fatigue possible. Where as it doesn't much matter for a casual reader for me who reads maybe 1-2 hours a day on average, and often less than that.

As I've said repeatedly, it's great that we have all these options to pick from so we can all find what we want. People that read tons and tons every day, don't spend much time on other media hobbies (TV, movies, music, games etc.) have e-ink readers as their ideal device. Someone like me that doesn't read that much and is more into movies, tv, sports, video games etc. has devices like the iPad and other tablets that are more in line with our needs.

Again, it's not some zero sum end game where only one type of e-book displaying device can survive. Tablets aren't going to bring about the death of your e-ink (or other reflective screen) reader devices. Thus there's no reason for people to be so antagonistic against LCD screens. It's fine that people don't like them, but no need for all the "if it glows it blows" type of hatred toward LCDs we get on here.

Different strokes for different folks. One can read on what they like, and discuss why they prefer it with out being super defensive and antagonistic.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:17 PM   #71
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My eyes are burning when I'm reading on a too bright LCD and my eyes are burning as well when I'm reading a book or magazine (especially the glossy ones) in direct sunlight. Conclusion: brightness is not good for my eyes. So I dim my LCD and I'm fine. End of story.
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:01 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by searcher View Post
That's not quite true. Every LCD monitor act like flashlight in dark room despite of the brightest. LCD monitors exactly like CRT monitors bеam unnatural light directly into your eyes. It's the same as to watch into flashlight and don't tell me this is safe for the eyes.
Hmm, whenever I try to find my bed using my JE100, I always stumble over it as the light coming from it just isn't enough to light my way... I'm not sure what kind of flashlights you use...
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:46 AM   #73
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I use LCD since they are on the market and can't avoid eye strain. All my friends has the same problem. So tell us the secret... Jesus!
If it's actually eye-strain then it's caused because you're using the device too often, or any of the reasons mentioned in the original post (too bright, wrong distance, etc.) Experiment and find out what works.
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:58 AM   #74
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True, everyone's eyes are different... Yet, the distribution of differences is not uniform, and, statistically speaking, it appears that majority prefers eInk stimuli.
That still doesn't make one better than the other... especially as the majority of those preference comments are anecdotal, without verifiable scientific data to back them up. There are no solid "statistics," and "it appears that" doesn't settle the matter.
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:42 PM   #75
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That still doesn't make one better than the other... especially as the majority of those preference comments are anecdotal, without verifiable scientific data to back them up. There are no solid "statistics," and "it appears that" doesn't settle the matter.
Which one is better is individual thing. If one is irritated by eInk screen he couldn't care less that majority of the users is finding that experience acceptable.

The sales figures for eInk screens are solid statistics, as those (equipped with eInk screen) devices are ill suited for anything else except dedicated readers.
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