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Old 04-06-2010, 09:42 PM   #16
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Steven, I can't agree with you more. I am no marketing wiz, just a humble consumer. Even I can see the profit they will be making off higher prices. I think, if the publishers are smart about it, They will bring the prices down til they find the "sweet spot" where consumers will buy their product more and they are happy with the return they get. The large increase will only drive more folks to free or pirated copies and they will lose money in the end.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:05 AM   #17
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It's why I published with one of the smaller publishing houses. They actually treat the authors and customers as real humans, and do things realistically. That's something the big houses can't and refuse to do. And personally, I'm sick of it.
Steven, I hadn't heard of you before and checked out your website. I'm very interested in reading some of your books. However they don't appear to be distributed here in Australia (one problem with a small publisher I guess), so ebooks would be a great alternative. Unfortunately you don't seem to have any of your titles available in ebook format. Have you considered using an independent supplier like Smashwords? Seriously, I'd purchase several of your books from them now if they were reasonably priced (say US$5 - $6).
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:16 AM   #18
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Was going to add this to my previous post, but the site won't let me edit the post...

I also agree with you Steven and the OP. Personally I will stop buying ebooks from the major sites in protest at the publishers actions. I'll probably end up purchasing more ebooks from sites like Smashwords and unknown indie authors, who in many cases, are just as good or even better than many well known authors. We'll also go back to borrowing from the local libraries again.

The big publishers (and their authors) are going to lose out again, thanks to their blind stupidity. They simply don't get it, and I don't know what it will take for them to get it.
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:52 AM   #19
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Honestly, the best thing for ebook consumers and, in the long run, publishers and authors, would be if ebook piracy were rampant! In the music industry, the labels were forced to come up with reasonable policies for digital music, because if they didn't, consumers would turn to Napster and Limewire instead.
I believe that is what is going to occur, regardless of the far smaller numbers of dedicated bookworms compared to audiophiles.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:00 AM   #20
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Steven, I hadn't heard of you before and checked out your website. I'm very interested in reading some of your books. However they don't appear to be distributed here in Australia (one problem with a small publisher I guess), so ebooks would be a great alternative. Unfortunately you don't seem to have any of your titles available in ebook format. Have you considered using an independent supplier like Smashwords? Seriously, I'd purchase several of your books from them now if they were reasonably priced (say US$5 - $6).
Ditto here, your novels look very interesting!
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:14 PM   #21
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I wrote to Amazon for a similar reason, but they just replied with some empty BS. I therefore sent the following letter to the publisher (I think if we all were to do this, it may slowly have an impact):



I was thinking of buying "Why Does E=mc2?" as an e-book. On Amazon, one of the cheapest sites in the internet, the Kindle edition is $2 cheaper than the hardback but almost $4 more than the paperback.

I would like to buy the e-book but cannot bring myself to pay more than the paperback. E-books are worth less to me because they have no re-sale value and I can't lend them to friends. They should be priced accordingly. Since I do not want to fill my shelves further, I will be borrowing the book from a library instead. You have lost a sale. Continuing to over-price e-books will only serve to increase piracy.
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Old 04-08-2010, 06:16 AM   #22
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I'll wait to see what really happens before making judgement.
For now, the only consequence I've seen is some book disappearing from BoB.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:33 AM   #23
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yup - I'll be hooking up with the Denver Public Library to see how their eBook offerings pan out...between them and what's on my "list" - I can surely wait out the "Greedy 5" publishers until they pull their heads out of their @sses.
The DPL is getting better daily. I signed up for the e-book access in the Fall and almost immediately was able to read the new Doctorow Homer and Langley and Atwood - The Year of the Flood.
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:10 AM   #24
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Of course, the trick is finding enough people willing to sacrifice to make something happen these days. Nobody wants to protest (save for small groups like us), nobody wants to go without, to suffer, to experience trouble and worse. The majority seem to want the easy way of life with no problems and no troubles. It's one of the reasons I had so many problems with my tech site. We did a lot of good, but nobody wanted to step up and do anything.

So in that sense, we the readers and authors are somewhat to blame as well. We haven't stepped up to the line and made the big houses take notice and say, "Hey, what we're doing is wrong. If we don't change, we'll lose our shirts." If enough people stepped forward and said something, these problems would be over almost instantly.
So the scores of uploaders who feed the darknet with content are not doing anything? Does that not count as a protest, as a way to circumvent the ugly statu quo? Are they, risking being ransomed or kidnapped on custody of their nation-states, doing not a bold and courageous action? The fact that one does not like their form of peaceful protest doesn't deny its status as such.

And why must we, book readers, resort to the hard ways if there are easier ones to get what we want? It's only human behavior to want to simplify and make things as easy as possible. That's why someone observed a circular stone and understood what could be a wheel.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #25
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Ozron, we're working on having ebooks for sale. It's just taking longer than I expected. I do have some free copies that I was gonna share here for you guys to read and enjoy. I just have to figure out how to post them to the archive. Dreams was kind enough to build them for me. The only thing I ask for those who read the free versions is, if you like them, leave a donation in the tip jar on my site as your way of saying thanks. The amount is up to you based on what value you feel the book had to you.

Oh, and btw, if you guys want print copies, I'm selling those directly off my website (they're in stores here in the states, and will be available internationally soon, but we're still waiting for Ingram to filter them through the system). Ebooks will be available soon for sale too from several sources, but aren't there yet. I'm still working on that.

Last edited by Steven Lake; 04-08-2010 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:38 AM   #26
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Ozron, we're working on having ebooks for sale. It's just taking longer than I expected. I do have some free copies that I was gonna share here for you guys to read and enjoy. I just have to figure out how to post them to the archive. Dreams was kind enough to build them for me. The only thing I ask for those who read the free versions is, if you like them, leave a donation in the tip jar on my site as your way of saying thanks. The amount is up to you based on what value you feel the book had to you.

Oh, and btw, if you guys want print copies, I'm selling those directly off my website (they're in stores here in the states, and will be available internationally soon, but we're still waiting for Ingram to filter them through the system). Ebooks will be available soon for sale too from several sources, but aren't there yet. I'm still working on that.
That's great news Steve. I realise you're selling print copies off your website, but I imagine that postage down to Australia will be prohibitive. More than happy to leave a reasonable donation for your "freebies" and very much looking to your ebooks coming out soon. Do let us know when they're out. Thanks!
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:31 AM   #27
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Good news indeed. I am looking forward to the ebooks!

Cheers and thanks again

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Old 04-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=gabrieldj;858559The recent changes demanded by publishers, however, are not reasonable. My biggest issue is not the price, but the pushed back availability of the e-books....[/quote]
I'm happy to tell you that your perception is incorrect.

At least one major publisher that is forcing the agency model (Macmillan) plans to release ebooks simultaneously with the initial paper publication. The situation is actually getting better rather than getting worse.


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Originally Posted by gabrieldj
Now, I have to choose between waiting for the book, sometimes months after the hardcover release, getting in line for it at the library, or spending money on a heavy hardcover that I don’t want to lug around or have cluttering up my house.
Not really. In fact, the big 5 publishers no longer need to delay the release of ebooks ("windowing"), since they can set the price of the ebooks.

Things are still changing a bit, but I'd say in a month or two windowing will be a fading memory rather than an economic reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gabrield
To add insult to injury, the price of the e-books is sometimes only a few dollars less than the hardcover retail price.
Sure, if you ignore the shipping & handling costs.

The paper costs are actually close to only 15% or so of the book. New ebooks are also generally hitting $10-15, whereas the "hardcover retail price" is actually more like $25 or $30. So the prices are actually a bit more in line than you probably think.


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I don’t know what to do now.
Man up?

Seriously, it's not that big of a deal. Availability of books in general, let alone new books, was actually much worse a year or so. There are plenty of ebooks -- including new publications -- at the $10 price point. So take it easy; if you like an ebook and it's a bit too expensive, just add it to your wish list and wait for the cost to go down.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:08 AM   #29
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The paper costs are actually close to only 15% or so of the book. New ebooks are also generally hitting $10-15, whereas the "hardcover retail price" is actually more like $25 or $30. So the prices are actually a bit more in line than you probably think.
If it's in that $10 range, sure. For a $25 book, a 15% paper cost is $3.75. So if your number is right I shouldn't be seeing that ebook for more than $12.75.

(I can get the print version for no more than $16.50 at Amazon - possibly less, if it's a Stephen King-class book - minus the inapplicable $3.75 for physical production. Yes, there's server costs, but there's also no shipping; that balances out in the publisher's/retailer's favor.)

Well, at least S&S seems to be reasonably pricing their ebooks of hardcover books - $11.99 for the ebook of a $25 hardcover that came out last Tuesday. Now if only they'd bother to do the same for paperbacks. Or have the book I want listed at Kobo.
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:17 PM   #30
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That's great news Steve. I realise you're selling print copies off your website, but I imagine that postage down to Australia will be prohibitive. More than happy to leave a reasonable donation for your "freebies" and very much looking to your ebooks coming out soon. Do let us know when they're out. Thanks!
A free copy of "The Oort Perimeter" is available here, and will also be available on the Astak ebook site as well. I'll also be offering books 2 and 3 of the series, plus book 1 of my anthology over there as well.
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