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Old 04-04-2010, 08:38 PM   #31
mrkarl
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typos..................one of the reasons I'm cool with file sharing.....for the time being.
But I fail to see the need for the publishers when you don't need the equipment of the printing industry.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:00 PM   #32
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File-sharing isn't really the way to go because it give ammunition to the DRM idiots. I think a better solution is to demand a refund every time you get a book with typos. You could, of course, read it and list all the typos before demanding your refund. If everyone did this, the publishers would have to sit up and listen. If it isn't the same quality as the paper version then they shouldn't be charging money for it.

Even for recent books they appear to be converting PDF to ebook. This, beyond anything, indicates to me that many publishers are clueless about the digital age.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:51 PM   #33
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On more than one occasion I have used Google Books to see if an error is in the print version. Unless it is an H&J error, it typically is.
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ravensknight View Post
That is like saying you can enjoy playing tennis with a racket with some broken strings and just "imagining" the boundary lines.
Did... for many years. Enjoyed it too.
Somehow managed to enjoy skiing on wooden skis and fishing with a cane pole and piece of string too.

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A smooth flow, a correct flow, is a VERY important part of the reading experience.
I agree... if one is reading poetry or classical literature. But not necessary for the average mystery, thriller, sci-fi. To me, anyway. YMMV.

I think the terrain is more interesting than the map.

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Old 04-04-2010, 10:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by raac View Post
File-sharing isn't really the way to go because it give ammunition to the DRM idiots. I think a better solution is to demand a refund every time you get a book with typos. You could, of course, read it and list all the typos before demanding your refund. If everyone did this, the publishers would have to sit up and listen. If it isn't the same quality as the paper version then they shouldn't be charging money for it.
A refund? Come-on. If it is over the top, maybe. I think a letter to the publisher is a good response in most cases. Also, care should be taken to make sure that the error is indeed ebook specific.

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Even for recent books they appear to be converting PDF to ebook. This, beyond anything, indicates to me that many publishers are clueless about the digital age.
Most ebooks are made using a script to convert the InDesign file (which amounts to the same thing as converting the PDF). If a soft return is added to fix H&J, it can make it into the ebook and cause weird line breaks. It's not that publishers are clueless about the digital age, it's that typesetters are lazy, and in many cases, ignorant and incompetent. I have met many "Graphic Designers" who think if it looks good on the final page, it is OK, not realizing that the text may need to get reflowed some day.

Hiring someone to proof the ebook once would be a good start.
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:18 PM   #36
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I hate to say this, but the PDF is sometimes used as for the print version and then the PDF is given out to the eBook department to create the various versions from. And we all know that a novel length PDF cannot be converted to any other format without errors.
If the pdf is based on the manuscript and not on a scan of a paper version (as is the case in the books and articles that my wife proofs), there should be no additional errors in conversion.

It 'should' only have problems if it needs to be OCRed...

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What needs to be done with new eBooks is to keep the book in electronic format and keep that up-to-date with all edits/changes/etc. but in a format that can easily be used to make different eBooks formats out of. That way, we get the same text that goes to the print edition.
Agreed.
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Old 04-05-2010, 06:00 AM   #37
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Hi,

How do others feel? Any tips on getting the publishers or sellers to take notice? Maybe it's time to mount a mass complaint?
I don't know how mounting a mass complaint would be implemented, but I am going to start a thread entitle Hall of Shame, and start with some details of the faults in one of the books I bought recently published by HarperCollins UK. I have told them that I am going to do this, and that I will recommend that people do not buy the book because of the shoddy production.

Perhaps other people would be willing to add to the thread about books they have bought, and also tell the publisher that the book has been reviewed in this thread.

Regards, Alex
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:09 AM   #38
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File-sharing isn't really the way to go
If the intention is to ultimately end up with a library full of ebooks without spelling mistakes, then file sharing is the way to get it. Anyone who finds a mistake in a fan-made ebook can either fix it themself and re-upload it, or post a list of corrections for someone else to act on.

Perhaps the publishers should offer some sort of bounty for proof reading, or at least have forums on their websites for people to report the mistakes they find. But they would need to act on those reports, otherwise people would soon lose interest in reporting them.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by DJHARKAVY View Post
If the pdf is based on the manuscript and not on a scan of a paper version (as is the case in the books and articles that my wife proofs), there should be no additional errors in conversion.

It 'should' only have problems if it needs to be OCRed...
When you convert a novel length PDF to any other format, there WILL be errors. And unless you have people go through the PDF comparing it to the conversion so that all the errors are found and corrected. So yes, there will be errors and if not caught then we get them in the eBooks we buy.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:06 AM   #40
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@mr ploppy
If the intention is to ultimately end up with a library full of ebooks without spelling mistakes, then file sharing is the way to get it.

I do see where you're coming from: what I'm saying is that we shouldn't have to resort to file-sharing for this purpose. Over-reliance on file-sharing can have a negative impact on the consumer because rights holders use it as justification for DRM. But let's not turn this into a piracy thread, yes? There's nothing stopping you from reporting errors to the publisher in an e-mail. A forum isn't really necessary.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:10 AM   #41
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There's nothing stopping you from reporting errors to the publisher in an e-mail. A forum isn't really necessary.
There ought to be some way to alert others that a book is poorly formatted. Print books can be flipped through in the bookstore, or previewed via Amazon's Look Inside feature, where such will be obvious; there's no equivalent for ebooks if you don't have a Kindle or Nook.
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Old 04-05-2010, 11:31 AM   #42
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@mr ploppy
If the intention is to ultimately end up with a library full of ebooks without spelling mistakes, then file sharing is the way to get it.

I do see where you're coming from: what I'm saying is that we shouldn't have to resort to file-sharing for this purpose. Over-reliance on file-sharing can have a negative impact on the consumer because rights holders use it as justification for DRM. But let's not turn this into a piracy thread, yes? There's nothing stopping you from reporting errors to the publisher in an e-mail. A forum isn't really necessary.
I've reported a few, but got no answer to any of them so I don't bother anymore. It's not really piracy related, it's just the way things are done over there. There's no real reason why the same model couldn't be adopted by publishers, but there would need to be some sort of incentive to do so. Maybe a bounty where they refund you some of the purchase price for each mistake you find, or give you a discount off your next purchase.
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Old 04-05-2010, 07:05 PM   #43
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Maybe a bounty where they refund you some of the purchase price for each mistake you find, or give you a discount off your next purchase.
This is more or less exactly what Amazon did when I reported the mistakes to them.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:09 AM   #44
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I bought my first ebook from Waterstones UK, Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson. It came across as something someone had QUICKLY scanned in on their computer and tossed out for free. Only what I paid wasn't free. My complaint email was never answered.
Glad I'm not the only one that was hacked off by this! My OCD nature made me go through and fix the mistakes. Randomly applied italics do not make for an enjoyable read

I was going to replace my entire pbook collection with electronic versions - I love the Erikson books - but I'm not going to bother now so its their loss really.
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Old 04-06-2010, 07:40 AM   #45
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I'm trying to understand all the ins and outs of this discussion, but the use of initials confuses me - perhaps it's obvious to everyone else here, but, what do OCR and OCD mean? Thanks in advance.

MJ
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