Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-24-2010, 10:36 AM   #76
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,041
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
So, I noticed than no-one seems to really know what Amazon can or does do with their access to Kindles, so I asked them and this is what they said:


Quote:
As described in the section you quoted, the logfile contains "data about your Device and its interaction with the Service (such as available memory, up-time, log files and signal strength) and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device)". The logfile is used by our technical team to diagnose any possible problems your device may have.

Annotations, bookmarks, notes, highlights are also stored by us so you can use Whispernet to synchronize that data on all your Kindle devices and applications. An example of this would be if you wanted to synchronize the furthest page read of a book you were reading on your Kindle DX, on your Kindle for iPhone.
So, there you go!

Last edited by TGS; 03-24-2010 at 10:40 AM.
TGS is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:42 AM   #77
kindlekitten
Professional Adventuress
kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kindlekitten's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,474
Karma: 44785252
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!)
Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle
that's pretty clear to me. Ladies and Gentlemen it is now safe to remove your tinfoil!
kindlekitten is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:22 PM   #78
Kali Yuga
Professional Contrarian
Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Kali Yuga ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Kali Yuga's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,045
Karma: 3289631
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle 4 No Touchie
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
What I don't accept is that those same people question my sanity and cast aspersions on my personality because I do have concerns.
Just to reiterate, I for one don't think you're nuts. I'm just trying to point out why I do not share your worries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS
Neither I, nor I suspect the pro-Kindle contributors to this thread, apparently actually know what Amazon can do, has done or will do with the data on Kindles.... What would be useful is information about Amazon's capabilities to interact with devices and evidence about how they have exercised any such capability.
Actually, we have a pretty good idea what Amazon and competitors like Apple can do and have done.

Both of these companies, and almost certainly B&N and any other ebook reader with 3g capabilities and syncing materials to the cloud, do the following.
- keep a record of what you've purchased
- track your browsing habits on their sites and online stores
- keep track of last page read, notes, and marks at time of sync
- record location data (as does your cell phone) for reliability purposes
- remotely wipe materials you have purchased through the official outlets (e.g. Apple can remotely kill iPhone / iPad apps at any time) in specific circumstances, e.g. an app is actually malware; if your iPhone gets stolen and you use .Me, you can remotely wipe it; a book turns out to violate copyrights)
- update firmware

Most of this has been exhumed via the Orwell "1984" issues and a few other enterprising individuals' research.

So far there is no indication whatsoever that they keep track of any materials you put on the Kindle outside of their official / Whispernet services. They certainly don't sync it for you.

Almost every online retailer is also data mining their sales, which they use for their own internal purposes. They also turn around and sell this data to the publishers. This applies to any product you purchase online, not just books. I'm pretty sure credit card companies, credit agencies, demographic research companies, web email services, search engines etc are all engaged in similar pursuits.

I concur there is a certain lack of transparency here. And if it bugs you, buy something else -- though keep in mind whoever you're buying books from is still up in your business. In practical terms, I do not see any significant additional loss of privacy as a result of Whispernet and similar syncing technologies.

Therefore, I'd say that duking it out with your significant other on Facebook is a far worse threat to your privacy than the Kindle.
Kali Yuga is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #79
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,041
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
But....just to be clear I have sent a follow-up to ask Amazon specifically whether, if I have, for example, work related PDFs on a Kindle, whether they can see them. If they come back and say they can't I might even buy one!
TGS is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:12 PM   #80
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,041
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
And this is what they said

Quote:
Beyond the specific information quoted in our previous response for logfiles that we use when you contact us for troubleshooting, and the bookmarks, highlights, and notes that you can choose to sync to our servers for use across multiple devices, we are not able to see individual files you place on your Kindle.

Personal documents that you place on your Kindle remain anonymous. They are not something that we see or "see into," even in the event that we do need to pull specific logs for device troubleshooting. If they are of a compatible format such as PDF then you can transfer them directly to your Kindle via USB and bypass our conversion & delivery service as well.
TGS is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:27 PM   #81
=X=
Wizard
=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
=X='s Avatar
 
Posts: 3,672
Karma: 12205348
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
But....just to be clear I have sent a follow-up to ask Amazon specifically whether, if I have, for example, work related PDFs on a Kindle, whether they can see them. If they come back and say they can't I might even buy one!
You know you don't have to registered your device, my Kindle is not registered.

The drawback is there is no auto sync and no ability to email your documents to the kindle, but everything else works the same. I can use the TTS, bookmarks and clippings on all of these books (except for the PDF books). The 3G connectivity works... and not having to pay for 3G to read blogs and downloading books for free(FeedBooks/MobileRead) is quite nice!

I'm currently working on being able to download my books from home on the kindle.

I laugh every time I hear somebody criticize the Kindle being tied to one store. I'm reading on my kindle all the books I bought from different stores outside of the Kindle, originally for the SONY PRS-505. Since most of my books where PDF and MOBI, I'm actually saving more time using the Kindle since I don't have to convert the MOBI to LRF.

To date I've only bought two books on the Kindle store, one of them was Topaz the other was DRM-Free.



=X=
=X= is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:36 PM   #82
kindlekitten
Professional Adventuress
kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kindlekitten's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,474
Karma: 44785252
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!)
Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
And this is what they said
can it get anymore clear? seriously. permission to remove tinfoil granted
kindlekitten is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:45 PM   #83
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,041
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindlekitten View Post
can it get anymore clear? seriously. permission to remove tinfoil granted
Point taken...but - just to have the last word - what convinced me is asking Amazon what they actually do and can do. Polemic and ridiculing (on both sides of the "debate") didn't really serve to move the discussion on.
TGS is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:51 PM   #84
kindlekitten
Professional Adventuress
kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kindlekitten ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kindlekitten's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,474
Karma: 44785252
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!)
Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle
*shrug* sometimes you just don't need to buy a whole lot of trouble. aslo understanding a digital handshake helps an awful lot
kindlekitten is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 04:09 PM   #85
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKFFW View Post
I'd be interested in hearing why you believe the term "theft" fits with regards to the mentioned case.
Because the legal definition fits, of course.

scveteran - Regardless, "such as" means that it's only an example and they are not limited in any way to those. There is no reason for such, they can and should include every intended use and of course there is a section allowing them to change the agreement - they'd simply have to update it for future uses.

TGS - Except... the agreement text is all that matters, they're not bound by anything else. Sorry.
DawnFalcon is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 04:30 PM   #86
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidkitten View Post
d00d; this is THE paragraph that needs to be paid attention to;
Well yes, that's the paragraph which was already posted in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazon
information related to the content on your Device and your use of it
ANY information. Not "Amazon-purchased" content, content. Again, this is not tinfoil hat time, that's your ball, it's "this is overly broad and should be altered". Sheesh.

Quote:
they are NOT reading everyone's Kindles! basically what they can do is send a sort of digital handshake to items obtained from Amazon. other than that they have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE!!! what it is!!!!
Once again, what they can do in a technical sense is quite irrelevant to what I'm saying. (And can be changed anyway, if they so desire)

Quote:
damn straight the Army would have had my ass by now if they thought they were being looked at
Actually, Ereaders with 3G are treated identically to cell phones ("you may not") in the UK, when it comes to classified documents. It's nothing really to do with Amazon ofc...
DawnFalcon is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 05:07 PM   #87
PKFFW
Wizard
PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.PKFFW ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,970
Karma: 6645034
Join Date: Dec 2008
Device: BeBook, Sony PRS-T1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnFalcon View Post
Because the legal definition fits, of course.
I don't see how.

Cheers,
PKFFW
PKFFW is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 05:32 PM   #88
DawnFalcon
Banned
DawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with othersDawnFalcon plays well with others
 
Posts: 2,094
Karma: 2682
Join Date: Aug 2009
Device: N/A
Under UK law, deleting copyrighted data belonging to someone else is theft, if the other party has a copy of the data - which they do (even if their copy was deleted at the same time). It's also unauthorised access under the computer misuse act and fraud, of course.
DawnFalcon is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 07:00 PM   #89
ChrisC333
Groupie
ChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it isChrisC333 knows what time it is
 
ChrisC333's Avatar
 
Posts: 194
Karma: 2031
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: West Australia
Device: Acer eM250 Netbook, iTouch, iRiver Story, HP TM2 Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGS View Post
So, I noticed than no-one seems to really know what Amazon can or does do with their access to Kindles, so I asked them and this is what they said:

So, there you go!
Good job!

Here's an example that might demonstrate some of how it works in practice:


A couple of days ago I got locked out of a book that I’d legally purchased a few days before and only partly read. If I was inclined to conspiracy theories I might well have got all excited by this. However, I’m not. So I worked through and fixed it. This is how it went:

1: Book wouldn’t open when I click on it in the Kindle reader software on the notebook that it had been originally downloaded to.

2. Message comes up politely asking me to delete the book and download it again. No explanation of what the problem is, or instructions how to re-load.

3. Decide that this could be one of those “If all else fails read the instructions” moments, so I go to the site and read some of the bits I’d skipped before.

4. Wonder what I might have done to provoke the incident. Recall that I had also installed the Kindle software on a desktop PC to test out how it looked on a full sized screen, and that I’d copied a couple of books across using a thumb-drive (including the book in question). Hadn’t authorised the second PC at that time. Aha! That could be the difficulty.

5. Deleted the book from both PCs, authorised the 2nd one and then downloaded the book back onto the notebook that I've been reading it on. Problem fixed, and my Amazon/Kindle account now shows PC, iTouch and PC2 as my devices.

6. When I opened the same book on my iTouch, I didn't need to re-download the book, but it did then sync with the server and ask me if I want to move forward to the page I’d read up to on the other device. Accept the offer and continue reading from where I left off.

It all seems reasonable to me. They presumably have an obligation to the publishers not to allow downloads to unlimited devices from my account, so I needed to follow the right steps to authorise my gear. I could have found my place without the sync, but it’s quite a neat feature and certainly saved me a bit of time.

Cheers,

Chris

Last edited by ChrisC333; 03-24-2010 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Typos - as usual
ChrisC333 is offline  
Old 03-24-2010, 07:15 PM   #90
TGS
Country Member
TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TGS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TGS's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,041
Karma: 7606841
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denmark
Device: Liseuse: Irex DR800. PRS 505 in the house, and the missus has an iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindlekitten View Post
aslo understanding a digital handshake helps an awful lot
Yeah, but not understanding digital handshakes is not a personality defect, it's just something that someone hasn't had the need to understand up until that point.
TGS is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kindle Privacy readingaloud Amazon Kindle 29 04-13-2012 03:03 AM
Kindle Privacy softshell Amazon Kindle 38 09-27-2010 01:09 PM
Reader privacy KNI Which one should I buy? 19 08-23-2010 05:32 PM
Privacy best Reader rabbie General Discussions 39 07-18-2010 03:30 PM
For Those Of You Worried About Privacy... Xanthe General Discussions 21 03-29-2010 07:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:22 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.