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Old 10-28-2006, 03:29 PM   #16
yvanleterrible
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Has this issue been addressed in other threads:

As cool as e-ink is, and clunky and heavy as paper books & posters are,

Books are pulped trees that can, to an extent, be re-used and their base material (trees) can be replenished.

From what I understand, most poylmers are some form of plastic, made from fossilised plant and animal remains long ago, with little to no way to replenish.

For all the tauting of not cutting down trees, is it such a good idea to use so much oil?

I'm not opposed to progress, do not think that oil companies are 'evil, &tc, but I simply wonder about the viability of the technology. Will concede that commercial printing these days propably involves all manner of nasty, toxic chemicals.

Just wanted to play devil's advocate.
Plastics are evolving. Some may come from bioforms. But it is true that 95% are oil originated. The cheapest, easyest is best for corporate thinking. There is a new way of making petrol. You read right making. They submit organic material to extreme pressures for as little as 24hours and harvest pure sweet crude. Potential high scale application is not profitable for now but in the works.

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Old 10-28-2006, 05:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu
Books are pulped trees that can, to an extent, be re-used and their base material (trees) can be replenished.
I don't know about you, but all my eBooks are printed on 100% recycled (and recyclable) electrons.
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Old 10-28-2006, 05:56 PM   #18
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Hum... Try this.... How many trees did it take to fill up your paper book shelves? Most books are NOT recycles but are put up on shelves for x years...
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Old 10-28-2006, 11:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvanleterrible
They submit organic material to extreme pressures for as little as 24hours and harvest pure sweet crude. Potential high scale application is not profitable for now but in the works.
Don't tell these folks that! They've set up a plant and are working on another one. Oh, and their process takes less than an hour per batch.
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:16 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by NatCh
Don't tell these folks that! They've set up a plant and are working on another one. Oh, and their process takes less than an hour per batch.
Good find!
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Old 10-29-2006, 12:51 PM   #21
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What can I say? I've been watching them for a couple of years.
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Old 10-29-2006, 05:41 PM   #22
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What can I say? I've been watching them for a couple of years.
Don't mean to be (c)rude but is'nt making your own oil anti-Texan?
Eco is the only way to survive.
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Old 10-29-2006, 11:10 PM   #23
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Actually, this method makes pretty much all petroleum products "bio-fuel" since it's made from waste biomass (cornstalks, sewage, medical refuse, etc.). And since it's essentially recycling carbon that's already part of the biosphere, as opposed to sucking extra carbon out of the ground and introducing it into the biosphere, the greenies out to be jumping up and down with glee. Strange that something which should get both the Ralph Nader and Big Bil happy is getting so completely ignored, isn't it?
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Old 10-30-2006, 08:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NatCh


Actually, this method makes pretty much all petroleum products "bio-fuel" since it's made from waste biomass (cornstalks, sewage, medical refuse, etc.). And since it's essentially recycling carbon that's already part of the biosphere, as opposed to sucking extra carbon out of the ground and introducing it into the biosphere, the greenies out to be jumping up and down with glee. Strange that something which should get both the Ralph Nader and Big Bil happy is getting so completely ignored, isn't it?
Man! Don't get me started on this subject here, it's my pet peeve.

I've been wanting an electric car since 1973 when the first petroleum scare happened. Today you still can't get one. I have driven three different models in 2001 on a test track. Loved them. Since then pfffttt! They're all gone. Even I you plunked the cash down, you just can't get one, except for a californian race car.

If you want some more info on energy, Home Power.com has a very comprehensive list of links on different topics. E-cars, solar, wind, biofuels etc.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:04 AM   #25
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All good points regarding the viability of plastics.

@Natch-- amazing stuff. Hope that it becomes feasible to collect & separate different wastes to the point it can be carted off to the TCP (?) plants for reconstituion.

@yvan-- nothing is ever popular unless it's cheap &/or easy.
Hmmm...that "good/fast/cheap" triangle should become a trapezoid. I think that for acceptance of new tech. or practices, "easy" needs to be a component.

In terms of competition for e-ink, and some of its applications, I must ask:

Can e-ink handle dynamic images, and not just static ones (i.e. can one view animation/video on e-ink)?

Was wondering this when I went to a website with an annoying banner that had sound. Am sure that the thinking was that if I get annoyed enough, I will click on the banner and fall into their little advertising trap. Am usure how much pull those banner people have, but they might hope to stymy the adoption of e-ink computer screens, if it means that their annoying flash ads are relegated to the electronic scrap heap.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:12 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu

In terms of competition for e-ink, and some of its applications, I must ask:

Can e-ink handle dynamic images, and not just static ones (i.e. can one view animation/video on e-ink)?

Was wondering this when I went to a website with an annoying banner that had sound. Am sure that the thinking was that if I get annoyed enough, I will click on the banner and fall into their little advertising trap. Am usure how much pull those banner people have, but they might hope to stymy the adoption of e-ink computer screens, if it means that their annoying flash ads are relegated to the electronic scrap heap.
Eink is in it's infancy. The present fault with speed is mainly because of the computer driving the display.

Note that dynamism has a direct relation with powerdrain, which is in opposition to the practicalities of a reader.

Eink is the next display!
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:31 AM   #27
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yvan--

I understand the correlation with microprocessor work & powerdrain. Mainly, my question went to e-ink replacing CRT & LCD screens, especially in regards to laptop/desktop displays.

Oooo....just thought of another group thrust into peril by e-ink; all the programmers who make those cute little screensavers. ;-)
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvanleterrible
I've been wanting an electric car since 1973 when the first petroleum scare happened. Today you still can't get one. I have driven three different models in 2001 on a test track. Loved them. Since then pfffttt! They're all gone. Even I you plunked the cash down, you just can't get one, except for a californian race car.
The electricity has to be generated somewhere, and for the nonce that'll mostly still be a petroleum/coal burn, with two more layers of transfer loss. Wish we'd get over the nuclear power phobia enough to at least look at things like pebble-beds. You can't make those things melt down.

I like the looks of that Tesla Motors vehicle , no range and completely impractical, of course, but impressive otherwise.
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Old 10-30-2006, 10:59 AM   #29
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Here in Québec, hydro electricity is the cheapest in the world, and we are about to invest massively in wind power. That northern is about to be of some use finally.

I see e-cars as a system comprising the car and a solar cell topped carport or garage. The average range of 40 clicks a day that most commuters do is well compensated by the 150km an e-vehicle does.

There is a movie doc. about to come out in DVD called "Who killed the Electric car".I recommend it.
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Old 10-30-2006, 11:11 AM   #30
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Wish we'd get over the nuclear power phobia enough to at least look at things like pebble-beds. You can't make those things melt down.
I'm not phobic about the power plants themselves. But waste that stays deadly longer than humans have been civilized so far seems like a bad idea to me. Yes, we will eventually find ways to deal with it, but as far as I'm concerned, commercial fission can wait until we do. (And pebble bed plants may not melt down, but they have risks of their own, also documented on the Wikipedia page.)

Estimates I've seen indicate that conservation would "generate" the equivalent of a new energy technology right now if we got serious about it. But I'm sure that's an argument for another forum elsewhere.

Back to the question at hand, a recycling program for broken or outdated iLiads would be a good thing. A process like CWT sounds good, because they can apparently filter glass and metals out of plastic/bio feeds and recycle those at the same time. That's the kind of direction we need to be able to go-- put anything in, get only usable stuff out. It looks like at this point CWT is only taking organic waste from turkey farms, but eventually they plan to process mixed "trash" type waste, including glass, plastic, metals, etc. A system like this is needed, because the expense of disassembling used computers for recycling is prohibitive, at least as long as everyone is allowed to just throw them into landfills instead. Regarding the "good-fast-cheap" + "easy" idea, "easy" usually translates pretty directly into "fast."
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