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Old 03-03-2010, 07:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cbone View Post
It's too bad that they waited around to slurp the ipad when they could have used AIR, Silverlight, or Java and got the exact same thing on any halfway decent device without losing profits to an app store.
Sure show me another touchscreen color tablet which can do what the travel book in this demo does without 12 months of development and a $50 pricetag.

Apple provides the framework for creating these book apps easily. Silverlight is a joke by comparison, AIR and flash could do it, but show me a color touchscreen tablet with 10hrs battery life that runs air..
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:15 PM   #17
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Sure show me another touchscreen color tablet which can do what the travel book in this demo does without 12 months of development and a $50 pricetag.

Apple provides the framework for creating these book apps easily. Silverlight is a joke by comparison, AIR and flash could do it, but show me a color touchscreen tablet with 10hrs battery life that runs air..
Well, I can't show any right now.

But by the time the 3G iPad comes along, I am hoping to be able to show you a few

Like this one.

Or this one.

I have been a staunch Apple consumer for ages, but I really am hoping that Android brings in some much needed innovation to the tablet market.

Last edited by Sonist; 03-03-2010 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:51 AM   #18
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...how many of those ebooks would they sell anyway if they made it only on the iPad?
Depends how many iPads end up 'out there' I guess??

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Imagine a woodworking magazine with plans, good articles and video how-tos.
As an aside, have you seen http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/ - an interesting move in that direction.

Cheers, Pete
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:30 AM   #19
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Depends how many iPads end up 'out there' I guess??
Very probable. If Penguins sells its books to, for example, .oo1% of the American population that reads, I don't see why they'd get a larger readership in the iPad community. The iPad is not a dedicated reader, it's plain to see that in the specialized iPad forums.

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As an aside, have you seen http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/ - an interesting move in that direction.

Cheers, Pete
Thank you for the link. Have a look at this one.http://www.finewoodworking.com/
I've been a fan from the first black and white issue in 1975. I can say that they have made a big part of my education as a professional woodworker.

They have a whole series of magazines on different topics.
http://www.taunton.com/index.asp
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:05 AM   #20
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Sonist said "If these are just proprietary apps working only on the iPad, it's kind of silly.
So, if you change devices, you lost all your purchased titles? Worse than DRM."

Silly? Seemed to work out pretty good for Amazon/Kindle

Last edited by Bremen Cole; 03-04-2010 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #21
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Sure show me another touchscreen color tablet which can do what the travel book in this demo does without 12 months of development and a $50 pricetag.
Assuming you mean $500, I still think you are missing the point, but there are a zillion cheap mp4 players and gps units running CE or a flash based OS that could do it. If they make the site properly, any recent browser on most devices could have the same functionality.

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Apple provides the framework for creating these book apps easily. Silverlight is a joke by comparison, AIR and flash could do it, but show me a color touchscreen tablet with 10hrs battery life that runs air..
Again, I think you are missing the point. Penguin could have an audience that is a subset of ipad/ipod buyers or a vast potential audience (anyone with an reasonable internet capable device) that includes ipad/ipod buyers.

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Silly? Seemed to work out pretty good for Amazon/Kindle
That's like saying having crap timebomb brakes has been working out well for Toyota. Until recently, no one thought about their brakes. DRM or lack of transferability are only issues once they interfere or impede.
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Old 03-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #22
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Sonist said "If these are just proprietary apps working only on the iPad, it's kind of silly.
So, if you change devices, you lost all your purchased titles? Worse than DRM."

Silly? Seemed to work out pretty good for Amazon/Kindle
Kindle books you can strip DRM, convert to any format you like and put them on any device.

If these type of books are tied to an iPhone app, you probably couldn't move them somewhere else. Plain books in the iBook store should be fine, as you should be able to strip DRM and convert just like any of the other DRM e-books out there.

But enhanced books like these penguin ones will likely be limited to only the iPad. It wouldn't keep me from buying--especially for newspapers and magazines which get read and deleted anyway. But it's an issue for others who want to ensure they have permanent access to books they buy if they switch devices etc.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Kindle books you can strip DRM, convert to any format you like and put them on any device.

If these type of books are tied to an iPhone app, you probably couldn't move them somewhere else. Plain books in the iBook store should be fine, as you should be able to strip DRM and convert just like any of the other DRM e-books out there.

But enhanced books like these penguin ones will likely be limited to only the iPad. It wouldn't keep me from buying--especially for newspapers and magazines which get read and deleted anyway. But it's an issue for others who want to ensure they have permanent access to books they buy if they switch devices etc.

but thats no different to buying a psp game? or any other device focussed content.
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:15 AM   #24
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but thats no different to buying a psp game? or any other device focussed content.
Uhm, I suppose to you there is no difference between books and games....

Some people accumulate libraries of books they like.

I know I do and I'd like to keep it this way.

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Kindle books you can strip DRM, convert to any format you like and put them on any device.

If these type of books are tied to an iPhone app, you probably couldn't move them somewhere else....
What he said.

Duh....
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:03 AM   #25
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Uhm, I suppose to you there is no difference between books and games....

Some people accumulate libraries of books they like.

I know I do and I'd like to keep it this way.



What he said.

Duh....
Well both are forms of electronic entertainment so at that level yes their are similiarities, people are generally hapy to buy something that works on a particualr device and are not too worried that it doesnt work on a different device.

So i dont see the fact that apples entertainment eg games and books will only work on apple devices asd being an issue for the majority. I also think that the high sales of book 'apps' supports that view.

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Old 03-05-2010, 07:11 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post
Kindle books you can strip DRM, convert to any format you like and put them on any device.

If these type of books are tied to an iPhone app, you probably couldn't move them somewhere else. Plain books in the iBook store should be fine, as you should be able to strip DRM and convert just like any of the other DRM e-books out there.

But enhanced books like these penguin ones will likely be limited to only the iPad. It wouldn't keep me from buying--especially for newspapers and magazines which get read and deleted anyway. But it's an issue for others who want to ensure they have permanent access to books they buy if they switch devices etc.
Sure you could strip DRM from a Kindle book then convert it and copy it.... And I could get a BMW by hitting the owner over the head and taking it.... problem is, both of these actions are illegal.

And BTW... you can get iPhone apps on Torrents, and there are even a few emulators out there (not great, but getting there....

I want to be sure I am not miss-understood…. I am against (in general) the proprietary nature of so many things, and therefore the inability to move from device to device. But it is a common practice and has been for a long time. Everything from TI calculator routines, video games, movie formats (vhs to dvd to blueray to ?), windows software, OSX software, Linux software, Android, Blackberry…..etc…..

My point was it is not “silly” to do so. It is common, and accepted, business practice. The fact that the number one ebook store is Amazon… who’s product can only be read (legally) on their device/app, shows it is not silly. So a Kindle owner wants to get any other brand of reader other than Kindle…. Fine, but they loose their entire library unless they defy Amazon’s licensing agreement and the law…. Not for me, but people flock to it…

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Old 03-05-2010, 02:14 PM   #27
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Sure you could strip DRM from a Kindle book then convert it and copy it.... ... problem is, both of these actions are illegal..... So a Kindle owner wants to get any other brand of reader other than Kindle…. Fine, but they loose their entire library unless they defy Amazon’s licensing agreement and the law…. Not for me, but people flock to it…
Nope.

First, it's arguable whether striping the DRM for personal use is illegal.

Second, I have purchased quite a few titles from Amazon and I have stripped the DRM on all of them. If I couldn't d it, I would not have purchased them.

I like the Kindle, but I am fairly sure that within a year I'll have a something else. Also, virtually everyone I know who has purchased ebooks strips the DRM on most of them, or buys only cheap throw-away e-titles.

So, yes, for me and many others, an iApp book will be a non-starter as a building block for a library.

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... So i dont see the fact that apples entertainment eg games and books will only work on apple devices asd being an issue for the majority. I also think that the high sales of book 'apps' supports that view.
Well, I think you are wrong. People may buy an occasional curiosity title for their kid, but I doubt most will start buying iApp books as they buy pbooks. Unless it's junk titles, but then a lot of these users also use the library, which will not be an option with the iApps.

What high sales of book apps? I have a couple of book apps on my iPhones, but both were free. It was just to see what they are (I really like Classics).

Plus, a lot of people without Kindles use their iPhones to purchase from Amazon because of the often cheaper prices, then they strip the DRM and transfer to their main reader. So even those numbers are misleading.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:47 PM   #28
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Sonist said "Nope.

First, it's arguable whether striping the DRM for personal use is illegal.

Second, I have purchased quite a few titles from Amazon and I have stripped the DRM on all of them. If I couldn't d it, I would not have purchased them.

I like the Kindle, but I am fairly sure that within a year I'll have a something else. Also, virtually everyone I know who has purchased ebooks strips the DRM on most of them, or buys only cheap throw-away e-titles.

So, yes, for me and many others, an iApp book will be a non-starter as a building block for a library."

Again.... Unless someone is willing to break their licensing agreement with Amazon, and willing to break the law, they cannot read an ebook bought from Amazon on any App/Device other than those approved by Amazon. Show me in the license you agree to when you buy a book from Amazon, that I am wrong.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:26 PM   #29
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...

Again.... Unless someone is willing to break their licensing agreement with Amazon, and willing to break the law, they cannot read an ebook bought from Amazon on any App/Device other than those approved by Amazon. Show me in the license you agree to when you buy a book from Amazon, that I am wrong.
Uhm, try looking up Fair Use. Or do you think a clickwrap agreement beats that?

DMCA is another matter, but as far as I know, the issue has not been definitively decided (and if it was, there is a good chance it will be on the side of Fair Use).

But, as a practical matter, the fact remains that people can remove DRM and move titles purchased from Amazon to devices other than the Kindle, while an iApp is useless outside of an iDevice. So books as iApps are a non-starter for many.

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Old 03-06-2010, 08:27 AM   #30
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Below is what you agree to with Amazon, taken directly from their site.....

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200399690

Use of Digital Content. Upon your payment of the applicable fees set by Amazon, Amazon grants you the non-exclusive right to keep a permanent copy of the applicable Digital Content and to view, use, and display such Digital Content an unlimited number of times, solely on the Device or as authorized by Amazon as part of the Service and solely for your personal, non-commercial use. Digital Content will be deemed licensed to you by Amazon under this Agreement unless otherwise expressly provided by Amazon.

Restrictions. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense or otherwise assign any rights to the Digital Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Digital Content. In addition, you may not, and you will not encourage, assist or authorize any other person to, bypass, modify, defeat or circumvent security features that protect the Digital Content.
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