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Old 02-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #1
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sigil 0.2.0

I just read the Feb 03 post about the upcoming v. 0.2.0; am I interpreting it correctly in that the new version will no longer have a single file with both book and code views, and instead will have numerous files like an unzipped epub and that each one will need to be edited individually?


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Old 02-23-2010, 08:03 AM   #2
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Yes, that's it. The first beta will not have support for search&replace across files, but the final version will.

This tabbed-based approach is better than the single-flow one. When you edit the book, you move from chapter to chapter. Here you'll just move from tab to tab. Also, in a single flow system, if you're looking at chapter 19 and want to edit something in chapter 8, you have to lose your current place, scroll up, find chapter 8, do what you want, then find chapter 19 again.

With tabs, this is all much quicker since each chapter is a separate tab. And if you need to perform some operations on all files, well then you just use S&R and select "Search/replace in all files" (or whatever I end up calling that).

In this new model, you don't lose anything except the slowness and the bugs that come with the single-flow approach.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:34 PM   #3
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sigil 0.2.0

V. 0.2.0 seems like there will be many advantages, chiefly in speed. However, I must admit I appreciate editing an epub like a simple, single html file rather than editing chapter by chapter, etc. It is similar in that respect to working with a mobi file using mobi creator. Having to worry about all the files involved in an epub is a bit daunting to a beginner like me!

Of course I'll try it but I've saved an install file of v. 0.1.9 and will revert back to that if it seems advisable. Although v. 0.1.9 is a bit slow, at least for a text only with one cover image it is not really that much of a problem on my 2.4 gH dual core. I also have access to a 3 gH quad core if necessary. However, if there were many images, tables, etc. in the epub then speed might be a serious impediment to v. 0.1.9.

Anyway, having access to a program like Sigil has certainly helped me learn to create and edit an epub using my own css styles. The only thing I'd really like to see added someday is a log that indicates where and what css and html errors are present in the file.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bobcdy View Post
However, I must admit I appreciate editing an epub like a simple, single html file rather than editing chapter by chapter, etc.
Personally, I like that approach too. I has it's downsides, but it's intuitive and simple. Sadly, it's also slow. There are other technical peculiarities with the epub format, Qt framework etc. that make this approach a not-so-great idea.

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Of course I'll try it but I've saved an install file of v. 0.1.9 and will revert back to that if it seems advisable.
Actually you don't have to save it. All the older versions of Sigil are up on the site in the "Downloads" tab. Just change "Current downloads" to "All downloads" in the drop-down and click on Search.

Google Code has this policy where they prevent project administrators from removing files from the site after a certain (very short) amount of time, or a certain (single digit) number of downloads. Effectively, when you upload something to GC, it's there for good.

So I couldn't remove the older versions of Sigil even if I wanted to. You will always be able to download them.

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Anyway, having access to a program like Sigil has certainly helped me learn to create and edit an epub using my own css styles. The only thing I'd really like to see added someday is a log that indicates where and what css and html errors are present in the file.
Bob
This is currently the highest rated issue on the tracker. It's a huge subproject, so you won't see it for quite some time.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:08 AM   #5
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sigil 0.2.0

Thanks for the info. You've done such a great job with the 0.1.9 that I expect I'll get used to and really like the new version! I suspect it might be more difficult for beginners to use, but then again, perhaps not so.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:30 AM   #6
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Well I'm quite excited about the release of 0.2.0.

I have no experience with html or xml whatsoever, (though I can clumsily figure stuff out as I change things that already exist) so to find a WYSIWYG editor has been very handy. Have been using it since 0.1.6.

Edit: just figured something mind-numbingly simple out! All good...

Last edited by Shieko; 02-24-2010 at 01:33 AM.
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Old 02-24-2010, 12:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Shieko View Post
Well I'm quite excited about the release of 0.2.0.

I have no experience with html or xml whatsoever, (though I can clumsily figure stuff out as I change things that already exist) so to find a WYSIWYG editor has been very handy.
You really have nothing to worry about. Honestly.

Let's say you don't know (and don't want to know) anything about XHTML, CSS etc. that actually makes up your book. Let's call these technologies magic.

So in 0.1.x, you would open an epub file and do your editing in the Book View, and if you switch to Code View you would see the magic. But you don't care about that so you just remain in Book View. That's fine. The content of the original files that made up the epub are all presented in this one "flow", one screen with a scrollbar and a double red line separates these out (the "chapter break" line).

In 0.2.0, the only thing that changes (from your perspective) is that you don't have one large "flow" anymore, but several. There is no red line demarcating chapters, they are now in separate files. You click on one of these files, and you see the "chapter" displayed in a new tab. Every tab has Book/Split/Code View. You don't care about the magic, so you remain in Book View.

No new knowledge is required from you as the user. You just edit the way you used to before, but now you get to "see" the different "chapters" of the book individually, not all at once.

That's it. You have nothing to be afraid of. The people who know and care about the magic can still work with it (and more effectively), and you get an faster/better/easier workflow since you don't have to scroll around as much.
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:39 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Valloric View Post
You really have nothing to worry about. Honestly.

Let's say you don't know (and don't want to know) anything about XHTML, CSS etc. that actually makes up your book. Let's call these technologies magic.

So in 0.1.x, you would open an epub file and do your editing in the Book View, and if you switch to Code View you would see the magic. But you don't care about that so you just remain in Book View. That's fine. The content of the original files that made up the epub are all presented in this one "flow", one screen with a scrollbar and a double red line separates these out (the "chapter break" line).

In 0.2.0, the only thing that changes (from your perspective) is that you don't have one large "flow" anymore, but several. There is no red line demarcating chapters, they are now in separate files. You click on one of these files, and you see the "chapter" displayed in a new tab. Every tab has Book/Split/Code View. You don't care about the magic, so you remain in Book View.

No new knowledge is required from you as the user. You just edit the way you used to before, but now you get to "see" the different "chapters" of the book individually, not all at once.

That's it. You have nothing to be afraid of. The people who know and care about the magic can still work with it (and more effectively), and you get an faster/better/easier workflow since you don't have to scroll around as much.
What happens if I make a "Sigil Chapter break" in 2.0? A new tab is generated after the current tab?
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Old 02-24-2010, 03:40 PM   #9
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What happens if I make a "Sigil Chapter break" in 2.0? A new tab is generated after the current tab?
That's what I'm currently working on. It's one of the last features that needs to be done before you see the first beta of 0.2.0 (hopefully in a few days).

What you said is the general idea. But it's remarkably tricky to do while keeping respectable performance. Both tabs would need to render, and I'm trying to avoid it for at least one of them. There are a few other complications as well.
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Old 02-24-2010, 05:20 PM   #10
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That's what I'm currently working on. It's one of the last features that needs to be done before you see the first beta of 0.2.0 (hopefully in a few days).

What you said is the general idea. But it's remarkably tricky to do while keeping respectable performance. Both tabs would need to render, and I'm trying to avoid it for at least one of them. There are a few other complications as well.
It's probably not needed, but I'd throw in a caution against premature optimisation, in that this, at least, doesn't sound to be something that'd happen that often (compared with opening the files, etc). Are you sure you're not spending time fixing things that wouldn't really matter - i.e. if both tabs did re-render would it be so bad, especially if it kept the code simpler?
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:13 PM   #11
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It's probably not needed, but I'd throw in a caution against premature optimisation, in that this, at least, doesn't sound to be something that'd happen that often (compared with opening the files, etc). Are you sure you're not spending time fixing things that wouldn't really matter - i.e. if both tabs did re-render would it be so bad, especially if it kept the code simpler?
Oh it's needed. If you open a large HTML file, it takes upwards of 30 seconds to render it. Let's say it's 30 seconds exactly. Now you find the start of the next chapter (say, 3% of the way through) and want to split there: the tab with the 3% size has to render, since it's a new tab. It loads very fast, because it's small. But if I let the original big tab re-render, that's another 29.1 seconds of render time.

And then you move a bit down, and then split again. Another 28.2 seconds... and then again... and then again...

I'd rather not be lynched by Sigil's users.

So that has to change. I made it my mission to make Sigil fast for 0.2.0.

BTW opening files is now very fast.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:33 AM   #12
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This is really a terrible thread!

Every time I go into the Sigil sub-forum I see it and say to myself: Finally! it is out! Great!!!

Then I remember that no, it's just meta talking about 0.2.0...
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:34 PM   #13
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You really have nothing to worry about. Honestly.

Let's say you don't know (and don't want to know) anything about XHTML, CSS etc. that actually makes up your book. Let's call these technologies magic.

So in 0.1.x, you would open an epub file and do your editing in the Book View, and if you switch to Code View you would see the magic. But you don't care about that so you just remain in Book View. That's fine. The content of the original files that made up the epub are all presented in this one "flow", one screen with a scrollbar and a double red line separates these out (the "chapter break" line).

In 0.2.0, the only thing that changes (from your perspective) is that you don't have one large "flow" anymore, but several. There is no red line demarcating chapters, they are now in separate files. You click on one of these files, and you see the "chapter" displayed in a new tab. Every tab has Book/Split/Code View. You don't care about the magic, so you remain in Book View.

No new knowledge is required from you as the user. You just edit the way you used to before, but now you get to "see" the different "chapters" of the book individually, not all at once.

That's it. You have nothing to be afraid of. The people who know and care about the magic can still work with it (and more effectively), and you get an faster/better/easier workflow since you don't have to scroll around as much.
Oh I mean excited in a good way! I've been frustrated more than one time by the slowness of the single flow format. Definitely looking forward to the tabbed approach! Couldn't come fast enough

I wish I knew more about xhtml/css, unfortunately it's low on my list of priorities in a busy schedule, and excellent tools like your own save me the hassle
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:15 PM   #14
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That's what I'm currently working on. It's one of the last features that needs to be done before you see the first beta of 0.2.0 (hopefully in a few days).

What you said is the general idea. But it's remarkably tricky to do while keeping respectable performance. Both tabs would need to render, and I'm trying to avoid it for at least one of them. There are a few other complications as well.
Can't wait for that. I mainly use Sigil to create/fix chapters in my ebooks!
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:04 AM   #15
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This is really a terrible thread!

Every time I go into the Sigil sub-forum I see it and say to myself: Finally! it is out! Great!!!

Then I remember that no, it's just meta talking about 0.2.0...
no more frustration, now !
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