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View Poll Results: What are your views on illegal copying?
All illegal copying of books is wrong 43 13.83%
It's OK to copy a book that is Public Domain in a different country 134 43.09%
It's OK to copy a book if I bought it new in print (I've paid the author) 172 55.31%
It's OK to copy a book if I own it in print (I own a paid-up copy) 180 57.88%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published electronically (I can't buy it) 125 40.19%
It's OK to copy a book that is not published in my country (I can't buy it here) 124 39.87%
It's OK to copy a book if the author is dead 79 25.40%
It's OK to copy a book if I think that the author is rich 19 6.11%
It's OK to copy a book from mainstream publishers 17 5.47%
It's always OK to copy (information wants to be free) 61 19.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 311. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2010, 04:42 PM   #106
kennyc
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No, I've said that it's wrong - i.e. not OK. I've just said that it's not theft.

Where did I say that it's OK to take something that you don't own?
When you said it's okay to download an electronic copy of a paper book you own.

It is not your right to download it without the permission of the owner. Just because you can doesn't make it right and to me I call that theft.

I really don't want to argue this more so I'm going to bow out of the discussion. There is no need for me to justify my beliefs any more than it is for you. I stated my beliefs in the second post in this thread.

I'm off to do some reading.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:44 PM   #107
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I'm off to do some reading.
Just make sure it's something you bought (where appropriate)
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:47 PM   #108
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Just make sure it's something you bought (where appropriate)

Yep. Thanks. Probably something bought used from Amazon.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:49 PM   #109
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That's a very good point. Why are publishers not prosecuting second-hand book shops?
In the US, they tried. And they lost. Many years ago. The result was the first-sale doctrine.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:50 PM   #110
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Aww, Kenny, don't run off. I like reading your opinions and discussions of topics.

I'm particularly intrigued by the question of the second hand book seller. If the author and publisher aren't paid royalties on these sales, how can it be legal?
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:51 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
True, but there is only one physical copy of a particular book once it is sold or given away if the original owner wants it again they much purchase it.
True. So what? The second-hand buyer is apparently still a thief, as they're reading the book without compensating the author.

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If you had that magical ability to duplicate physical objects would it be right?
Of course it would. Also colossally socially disruptive until society adjusted to the new realities.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:54 PM   #112
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I'm particularly intrigued by the question of the second hand book seller. If the author and publisher aren't paid royalties on these sales, how can it be legal?
Practically speaking, because the content distribution industry hadn't purchased (or at least rented) enough lawmakers and judges.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:55 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo1967 View Post
That's a very good point. Why are publishers not prosecuting second-hand book shops?
1st sale doctrine. Look it up, or look for earlier posts of mine on the subject here at mobileread.

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Old 02-19-2010, 04:55 PM   #114
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In the US, they tried. And they lost. Many years ago. The result was the first-sale doctrine.
What is the 'first-sale doctrine' please? It seems like it's germane to this discussion.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:56 PM   #115
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1st sale doctrine. Look it up, or look for earlier posts of mine on the subject here at mobileread.

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I think our posts crosses Xenophon. I'll look it up!
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #116
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When you said it's okay to download an electronic copy of a paper book you own.

It is not your right to download it without the permission of the owner. Just because you can doesn't make it right and to me I call that theft.
Agreed.

Also, you could argue that the electronic copy conveys additional functionality and usage (in the form of portability, reduced storage needs, ease of backing up, etc.) that are not present in the physical book so it could be said that in order to get those additional benefits you need to buy the electronic copy.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #117
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Aww, Kenny, don't run off. I like reading your opinions and discussions of topics.

I'm particularly intrigued by the question of the second hand book seller. If the author and publisher aren't paid royalties on these sales, how can it be legal?
Thanks Kaz, not running off, but I always seem to end up at odds with many of the opinions so better to not argue round and round the same ol' things that always come out in these copyright/pirating threads.
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:57 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Pardoz View Post
True. So what? The second-hand buyer is apparently still a thief, as they're reading the book without compensating the author.


Of course it would. Also colossally socially disruptive until society adjusted to the new realities.

What denotes thievery is the laws present in the society wherein the transaction took place and not public or personal opinion. The truth is as long as it meets the laws of the land, selling the second hand book or purchasing it is legal (here in the US ~ I can't speak for other countries).
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Old 02-19-2010, 05:00 PM   #119
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You can find discussion of 1st sale doctrine in about the middle of this post of mine. Or at wikipedia. My discussion is shorter; wikipedia's is much MUCH better.

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Old 02-19-2010, 05:09 PM   #120
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You can find discussion of 1st sale doctrine in about the middle of this post of mine. Or at wikipedia. My discussion is shorter; wikipedia's is much MUCH better.

Xenophon
Thanks Xenophon, I read both. Which of course led to a question that was seriously off topic - so I started a new one.... http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74418
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