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Old 02-20-2010, 08:57 PM   #61
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Actually, most Apple computers are priced pretty competitively, if you compare them to branded Windows hardware.
No they are not. You're getting a pretty decent computer (P5200 - Dual Core, 2 GByte RAM, Keyboard, Mouse, Harddisk, included graphics card, Casing, Power) for under 200 Euro. Okay you have to invest around 60 Euro for Windows 7 but try this with a Mac Mini or any other Mac ...
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:17 PM   #62
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No they are not. You're getting a pretty decent computer (P5200 - Dual Core, 2 GByte RAM, Keyboard, Mouse, Harddisk, included graphics card, Casing, Power) for under 200 Euro. Okay you have to invest around 60 Euro for Windows 7 but try this with a Mac Mini or any other Mac ...
It depends on what you call "pretty decent." You have to compare branded boxes, with comparable quality. Not junk.

Put together something branded that's comparable to an iMac, including it's 27" IPS glass, and you'll see it's pretty good value. And it looks damned good, too.

And yes, it's true, a Mac is a little more expensive in Europe than in the US, but so is a Porsche.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:33 PM   #63
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You have to compare branded boxes, with comparable quality. Not junk.
It's not just about comparing specs.
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Old 02-20-2010, 10:40 PM   #64
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It's not just about comparing specs.
I agree.... The iMacs are actually a pretty good deal.... not for me, because I don't like OSX or a "all in one" system. But, I do not think when equal quality is compared to equal quality, Apple is not really over priced.

Sure I can build a Mac Pro spec computer for much less....but If I were to use the same exact components of the Mac Pro.... there would not be THAT much difference. Plus, what I built would not have the warranty, or resale value of a Mac.
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:17 AM   #65
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It depends on what you call "pretty decent." You have to compare branded boxes, with comparable quality. Not junk.

Put together something branded that's comparable to an iMac, including it's 27" IPS glass, and you'll see it's pretty good value. And it looks damned good, too.

And yes, it's true, a Mac is a little more expensive in Europe than in the US, but so is a Porsche.
You think the Porsche is more expensive where it is made than in the USA? ^^

What are 'brand boxes'? It's just a mainboard, ..., called a brand. PCs from Dell are worse than if you build it yourself (e.g. Dell's can't be overclocked).

- For an ASRock G31M-GS, G31 you pay around 32 Euro. ASRock is the sister from Asus so it's the same 'stuff' only with another name.
- Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200, 2x 2.50GHz, it's the same Core2Duo technology only with less second level cache. Well overclockable over 3,4 GHz
- 2 x 1 GB RAM DDR - 30 Euro

Even if you don't overclock you're getting a decent fast system (I made some for my friends and they are all excited to play the newest games - some have upgraded with a faster graphics card for 70 Euro).

---
And for your 'premium Apple hardware' - the iMac (especially your mentioned 27" with the 'superb display') has a lot of problems:

http://topnews.co.uk/22420-apple-rev...-imac-resolved

and it's not the first time - three years ago Apple had an advertisment that their iMac displays could display millions of colors. That was a lie the hardware was only able to show a quarter of millions. Every cheap noname pc monitor can show all the colors needed for 32 bit only Apple's displays weren't able to.

And my university iMac had a 5400rpm hardddisk - it was so slow you can't imagine ...

You see, I suspect Apple gets the cheapest of the cheapest hardware and sell's it for a premium price for cheap hardware.

So, what's a brand worth if they don't deliver the value?

Last edited by joblack; 02-21-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:21 AM   #66
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...
You see, I suspect Apple gets the cheapest of the cheapest hardware and sell's it for a premium price for cheap hardware.
You keep harping on this suspicion of yours. Why not get the word out with facts that can be shared with the world. Blow the lid off of all this misplaced Apple quality and value. Save me from purchasing inferior products from them in the near future.

Last edited by SCION; 02-21-2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:48 AM   #67
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And sorry, pancreatic cancer isn't a joke to me. I wish a transplant could have saved my mom.

Can't agree more!!!

That is one of the worst type of cancer in existence TODAY!

If jobs announce he is throwing 20% of ipad sales income to cancer research, i will buy one on day one!


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Old 02-21-2010, 01:45 PM   #68
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Actually, most Apple computers are priced pretty competitively, if you compare them to branded Windows hardware.

I personally have given up buying cheap substitutions, because while I saved a few $$$, I was never really happy with the look, quality, etc.. In fact, even if I wanted to run Windows, I'd still prefer to do it on Apple hardware.
Yep, there's not denying Apple stuff is well built, well designed etc.

It's just a matter of what a person cares about. For me, it's all performance and price. I don't care about looks, build quality etc. all that much.

I'm fine with my ugly, black, plastic Lenova Thinkpad T400. It's fast, doesn't crash or freeze etc.

As long as my PCs are quick and reliable, that's all I need. Others care more about build quality, appearance etc. and are willing to pay for it and that's fine.

I never bash Apple. They make quality products, and make a lot of money selling them. They just haven't made anything that fit my needs at a value I felt was worth it yet. The iPad is the closest they've came yet.
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Old 02-21-2010, 05:47 PM   #69
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As far as the liver transplant goes, I can't cast a stone at Steve for his "suspicious" actions. If I were dying (or my wife/children) , I would do everything in my power to live. Any rational and emotionally healthy person would. Not everyone has the mental health of a suicide bomber....
How pathetic that you are so afraid to die that you would do anything to avoid it. What you consider "rational and emotionally healthy" in such circumstances is what I consider egoism and cowardice.
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Old 02-21-2010, 05:51 PM   #70
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How pathetic that you are so afraid to die that you would do anything to avoid it. What you consider "rational and emotionally healthy" in such circumstances is what I consider egoism and cowardice.
If the remaining livers are distributed in a fair and transparent manner there is nothing to say about it but if some rich guys can change the queue by giving kickbacks I'm not amused about it.

Let's say you're 70, rich and need a new liver. With some 'financial help' you could go in front of the queue and a 16 year old girl dies because she didn't get a liver in time. Would you still do it?
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:27 PM   #71
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How pathetic that you are so afraid to die that you would do anything to avoid it. What you consider "rational and emotionally healthy" in such circumstances is what I consider egoism and cowardice.
If you call it egoism and cowardice to want to live, and want your family to live... then you pegged me right. If me/wife/child were dying of an illness, and I could do something about it I would.... I assume you on the other hand would just pick out a casket and throw your family member in it..... In MY opinion that is not rational and emotionally healthy.
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Old 02-21-2010, 07:23 PM   #72
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If you call it egoism and cowardice to want to live, and want your family to live... then you pegged me right. If me/wife/child were dying of an illness, and I could do something about it I would.... I assume you on the other hand would just pick out a casket and throw your family member in it..... In MY opinion that is not rational and emotionally healthy.
You don't actively kill somebody to save your life (excluding war and defense crime scenarios).

If you have a distribution system which fairly decides which patient gets a transplant I'm strongly against the option to bribe somebody to get an organ sooner (and harming in that way another human being).

If you want to save your family lives with actively or inactively harming other people your 'moral compass' is seriously screwed up.
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Old 02-21-2010, 10:24 PM   #73
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joblack, I don't know you, and I have nothing against you.But if you and my 4 year old grandson both need a liver.... and my life savings will give the liver to my grandson, then I'm sorry to say it but you are sol....

I agree in the "fair" system idea. I believe in a world without war, terrorist, and sickness. But that is not the world we have. I love my grandchild and would do what would be in my power to save his life, I realize that many people these days do not understand something like that, but survival of your loved ones over complete strangers is not as an immoral idea as you may think.

Burning house, two people inside, 1 is your son and the other is a strangers child. You can only save one.... are you telling me you would rescue the strangers child?

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Old 02-21-2010, 11:30 PM   #74
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Whats the topic in this thread? Cancer, Windows/PC vs Apple/OSX, economics?
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:32 PM   #75
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joblack, I don't know you, and I have nothing against you.But if you and my 4 year old grandson both need a liver.... and my life savings will give the liver to my grandson, then I'm sorry to say it but you are sol....


Burning house, two people inside, 1 is your son and the other is a strangers child. You can only save one.... are you telling me you would rescue the strangers child?
That's not the same question. In the example of the liver transplant you are killing another person because you bribed somebody.

In the burning house example you're in an inversed situation. You can save somebody and I would most probably save my son. But you are not killing the other person because without you both of them would die.

These two examples aren't comparable.

Anyway, I'm really happy that you are not in a position of power and laws are being made by people with a better understanding of moral issues.

If your grand-son would get a liver purely by bribe (and not by a balanced calculation of different factors) I would spend my life savings and the rest of my life to get you into jail for this crime. Additionally I would brand your family in the mass media.

Last edited by joblack; 02-21-2010 at 11:41 PM.
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