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Old 02-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #46
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Program freezing is a problem of the program and not the operating system. If you get regular bluescreens either the hardware is defective or you have subprime driver installed. Both is a reason to get deeper into it. I'm not a fan of Windows Vista but it was made primarily because the Win XP 32 Bit didn't support RAM over 4 GByte (and for the 64 Bit version wasn't enough drivers around).

Anyway, I mostly use Linux now (but Windows 7 here and there) and if something isn't working I can fix it myself.

I have nothing against reasonable Mac users (everybody has the right to make mistakes in their life ;=) ) but the instability of Windows is a mythos which was true in Windows 9x times but now it's very stable.

I'm allergic to this superb religious attitude of some Mac users where Windows is still absolutely unstable and a Mac never crashes ...
Nice, level-headed response.
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Old 02-19-2010, 02:52 PM   #47
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Because there is no real reason to. The market trend is toward notebooks. I buy them because electricity is getting expensive in my area. People like the portability. I don't know many people that buy a desktop anymore when they need a new computer.
True. I only have my work laptop at home and will probably not have a desktop again.

But my point still stands. They won't put out a mid spec'd laptop either. I can buy a windows laptop from Dell, HP or any other number of companies for $500 or so that will do everything I need for 5+ years as I don't need much power.

I can't do that with Apple as they won't put out lower spec'd laptops at lower prices, and I'm not willing to pay a higher price for extra power I don't need, design elegance and build quality that I don't care about etc. Price and performance are all I care about.

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BTW, my opening statement above is why products like the iPad are the future. The dirty secret is that most people don't need or actually use a computer as a computer. They just get email, and putz around on the net. A simple, stable, portable and ascetically pleasing internet appliance is all most need.
Agreed. And getting good handwriting recognition will probably be a key to their adoption as people do a lot of e-mail, instant messaging etc. and need text input. On screen keyboards are too clunky for much text entry, hooking up to a keyboard dock, or using a stand for the tablet and using a bluetooth keybard etc. is clunky vs just using a laptop.

So they'll have to solve the text entry problem for tablets to replace laptops and netbooks as people's home internet appliances.

For now, something like the iPad I'd use for light browsing, but still have my laptop nearby for e-mail, forum posting etc.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:56 PM   #48
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True. I only have my work laptop at home and will probably not have a desktop again.

But my point still stands. They won't put out a mid spec'd laptop either. I can buy a windows laptop from Dell, HP or any other number of companies for $500 or so that will do everything I need for 5+ years as I don't need much power.

I can't do that with Apple as they won't put out lower spec'd laptops at lower prices, and I'm not willing to pay a higher price for extra power I don't need, design elegance and build quality that I don't care about etc. Price and performance are all I care about.
Well, Apple is about good profit margins, not chasing marketshare. I think before they do that, they go out and make iPods, Phones, the next thing because they just don't have enough quality engineers to do everything - opportunity cost is the term? Idk, I'm just a programmer, not an economist.

I'm not saying your point isn't worthwhile, just the reality of the company. IIRC, Japanese car manufacturers, back when they were just starting to the 1980s or 1990s, would gladly sacrifice profit for marketshare...

So there are 2 valid points of view on that topic.

I guess most people would like to just play with OSX without getting the Apple hardware. If Apple would license out OSX for a worthwhile fee, that could work, but the first thing Jobs did when he stepped in as iCEO was nix the 3rd party OEMs making Macs since he said it was cannibalizing sales. With lawsuits against anyone trying to make Hackintoshes and selling them commercially up to this day (with legit copies of OSX), I think Apple is deadset against the Microsoft route.

Personally, I can't blame them. IMO, there isn't room for 2 Microsofts, they'll get to commodity status in no time ripping each other a new one. And Linux is waiting in the wings as a 3rd player. OTOH, one doing a Microsoft Model and the other going for software/hardware integration route is nice because I personally like the trends Apple kicks off They weren't the first mp3 player, but just really raised the bar (as well as tying the player to an easy store...). They weren't the first smartphone, but again, just raised the bar with the iPhone.

Without the iPhone, there wouldn't be Android imo, which is pretty neat in itself. I can't wait to see what gadget Apple does next.

I spent the last decade playing with Linux and last 5 years playing with Ubuntu specifically -- but now I'm in a mood where I want to come home and just have things work I'll be back to Ubuntu or some other Linux distro if they really advance one day (what Ubuntu was to Linux, they need for Ubuntu now). Windows 7/OSX ftw atm.
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:03 PM   #49
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@jibril .... Since 90% of home computers today are really used as internet appliances, I agree with you. But there is still a market for those who want more, but don't want to shell out $3000 to do so..... but, it matters not, there are hundreds of PC alternatives....
What I said one post above.

But I agree 100%, yours and Apple's interests just don't intersect at the moment and there are lots of alternatives.

Back in the day, if I didn't build my small desktop myself, I gave my business to a small 3rd party. I found the big OEMs always bogged down the computer with additional software/(malware imo) and that really ticked me off - buying a comp and then having to spend half a day cleaning it up. Acer was one of the worst.

And now the big guys don't give you a true Windows disk anymore, just a restore disk - yeah, restoring their malware/snailware on top of it
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Old 02-19-2010, 11:19 PM   #50
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@jibril.... the Windows disk thing drives me nuts.... A week or so ago I bought a little Gateway netbook (awesome, very satisfied) , and it has that "hidden" disk section with the back up. Of course if the drive fails you .... well ... SOL comes to mind.

I mean what does a DVD/CD cost? Wholesale perhaps 25 cents? Sure, you can burn your own. No big deal to me, but to many... they will never do it....
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:13 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Bremen Cole View Post
@jibril.... the Windows disk thing drives me nuts.... A week or so ago I bought a little Gateway netbook (awesome, very satisfied) , and it has that "hidden" disk section with the back up. Of course if the drive fails you .... well ... SOL comes to mind.

I mean what does a DVD/CD cost? Wholesale perhaps 25 cents? Sure, you can burn your own. No big deal to me, but to many... they will never do it....
The 'hidden disk' section is just a small SSD (around 512MByte) to accelerate the bootup. You don't have important data on it (if you delete it it will be recovered next time you boot).
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:41 AM   #52
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If you compare it with other companies Apple is getting an unusual profit margin. Even if you just check out the total profit before taxes Apple makes over 30 % profit over volume of sales. That's ripping people of (the same is with Intel by the way) ...
It's called "what the market will bear", or, plain and simple, capitalism. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, then the price will come down. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy this thing. Neither do you have a "right" to own it. Apple made it, they can charge whatever they want for it. They could charge $5000 for it, and that'd be cool. They wouldn't sell any of them at that price, but hey, if that's the tag they want to put on it, go for it.

It's kind of silly to get on a forum and complain about the price of a product that you do not need and will not change your life if you either do or do not get.

It's like people on this forum bitching about the price the publishing houses charge for their books. If you don't like the price, don't buy the book. Go read War and Peace, The Count of Monte Cristo, Moby Dick, or any of the other totally free examples of literature that were authored by someone who writes like they actually passed a 4th grade reading and writing class, as opposed to, say, the Dan Browns of our current mass-market book market.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:44 AM   #53
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With the same argumentation you could say the credit companies aren't ripping people off but my point is that they aren't educated in that area and it's not all their fault.
Yes, it is. The credit card lunacy people get themselves involved in only proves one thing: most people are indistinguishable from cattle. I have little sympathy for demonstratable idiots trying to blame their idiocy on others.

"I'm in over my head in credit card debt!"
"Whose fault is that?"
"The credit card company's, of course!"
"Did they force you to buy a flat screen TV that you couldn't afford to pay cash for?"
"Well, no."
"So the only logical conclusion from this conversation would be?"
"I'm an idiot."
"Have a nice day! And be happy, you learned something today!"

Last edited by cmdahler; 02-20-2010 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:51 PM   #54
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The 'hidden disk' section is just a small SSD (around 512MByte) to accelerate the bootup. You don't have important data on it (if you delete it it will be recovered next time you boot).
You mean just a flash card of some type? Not an overly horrible idea, except that fresh Windows install will forever be marred with OEM crapware.

Anyway, the last Acer I bought puts the restore on a seperate partition of the hard drive. If the hard drive fails I'm SOL (they want to charge $30 for a dvd )
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:57 PM   #55
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Yes, it is. The credit card lunacy people get themselves involved in only proves one thing: most people are indistinguishable from cattle. I have little sympathy for demonstratable idiots trying to blame their idiocy on others.

"I'm in over my head in credit card debt!"
"Whose fault is that?"
"The credit card company's, of course!"
"Did they force you to buy a flat screen TV that you couldn't afford to pay cash for?"
"Well, no."
"So the only logical conclusion from this conversation would be?"
"I'm an idiot."
"Have a nice day! And be happy, you learned something today!"
I don't think it's mainly about idiocy. It's about financial education (or the loss of it). Most of the people aren't stupid - they are just not informed how credit cards and money really works.

I blame not the offer from the credit card companies - I blame the state who cooperates with that 'moral fraud' and doesn't inform their citizens in way they understand what they are doing.

Of course you also need some reflective thinking but if you have never learnt it is it really solely your fault?

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Old 02-20-2010, 04:30 PM   #56
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Of course you also need some reflective thinking but if you have never learnt it is it really solely your fault?
I suppose you could put some of the blame on the parents or the educational system if you really stretch, but in the end, how hard is it to look at your paycheck to figure out if you can afford what you are purchasing and set up a budget? Pretty much anyone with half a brain and a modicum of self-restraint could figure that one out for themselves. I hear people go on about "no one ever taught me how to manage money" and I marvel that that person somehow manages to remember to breathe every few seconds. 2 + 2 = 4 is about the only level of math that is required to manage simple finances, and I am reasonably confident most people who get past the fourth grade can manage at least that much. I generally view this whole "no one taught me" bit to be yet another attempt to just blame someone else for their own mistakes. "Responsibility" is what these people need education in, not finances.
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:37 PM   #57
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I suppose you could put some of the blame on the parents or the educational system if you really stretch, but in the end, how hard is it to look at your paycheck to figure out if you can afford what you are purchasing and set up a budget? Pretty much anyone with half a brain and a modicum of self-restraint could figure that one out for themselves. I hear people go on about "no one ever taught me how to manage money" and I marvel that that person somehow manages to remember to breathe every few seconds. 2 + 2 = 4 is about the only level of math that is required to manage simple finances, and I am reasonably confident most people who get past the fourth grade can manage at least that much. I generally view this whole "no one taught me" bit to be yet another attempt to just blame someone else for their own mistakes. "Responsibility" is what these people need education in, not finances.
With 18 I got a credit card limit for 2.000 Euro and with 18 you normally know 'shit' about the world and how it works.

Today I would say yes I understand how it works but it took some suffering to get it (and some people never get it).

I think it's better not be the 'preachy teacher' especially if you don't know how it was when you were young and what not so intelligent things you've done in that era.

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Old 02-20-2010, 04:45 PM   #58
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With 18 I got a credit card limit for 2.000 Euro and with 18 you normally know 'shit' about the world and how it works.
I'll grant you that 18 year olds are little better than 5 year olds at making decisions that in any way reflect common sense, but really, come on. You could have gotten a credit card worth a million, it doesn't matter: it doesn't take a graduate level course in finances to figure out you'll have to pay that back someday.

Although I do agree that it is simply not a good idea to put a wad of cash in a child's hand and expect them to act in a mature manner about it. There really ought to be a law that no one under the age of 35 can have a credit card to begin with unless they pass some kind of test first. I used to think that's what public education was for; evidently I was mistaken.

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Old 02-20-2010, 05:27 PM   #59
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I have no problem with companies keystoning their product. They DO have to make a profit to offset costs to manufacture their products. For it costing 229$ to make an iPad, I am surprised they are only marking it up 100% from price it costs to make.
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Old 02-20-2010, 06:50 PM   #60
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I have no problem with companies keystoning their product. They DO have to make a profit to offset costs to manufacture their products. For it costing 229$ to make an iPad, I am surprised they are only marking it up 100% from price it costs to make.
Actually, most Apple computers are priced pretty competitively, if you compare them to branded Windows hardware.

I personally have given up buying cheap substitutions, because while I saved a few $$$, I was never really happy with the look, quality, etc.. In fact, even if I wanted to run Windows, I'd still prefer to do it on Apple hardware.

I tried buying Dell monitors for a short while, but the things look cheap and ugly next to the Apples, the PQ of the cheaper ones is subpar, and nobody was happy using them. So, now I buy only Apple (although I do get refurbs often - good savings, same warranty as new and I've never had a problem with one).

As to laptops vs. desktops, I use both, but find the iMacs perfect for most uses that do not require portability. They are sleek, powerful, relatively good value, and very well-made.

I do use a Mac Book Pro at work, plugged into an Apple 24" IPS monitor, but mainly so I can take it with me when I travel.

To keep files and documents synced automatically, I use DropBox, which works perfectly.
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