Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > Workshop

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-12-2010, 01:10 PM   #1
jgray
Fanatic
jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.jgray ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 512
Karma: 1018067
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Galaxy Tab 10.1 & Note II
Punctuation

I just came across a nice page which summarizes the use of the proper HTML character entities for common punctuation. I know this has been discussed before, but this page is a nice summary.

http://csswizardry.com/toybox/punctuation-glyphs/

The one point of the chart I questioned is the use of the hair space around an em-dash. According to Wikipedia, it is not commonly used (at least in the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_%..._around_dashes
jgray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 01:34 PM   #2
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,782
Karma: 40397151
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Certainly in British English it is not normal to have spaces around an em- or en-dash.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 04-12-2010, 02:24 PM   #3
frabjous
Wizard
frabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameterfrabjous can solve quadratic equations while standing on his or her head reciting poetry in iambic pentameter
 
frabjous's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,213
Karma: 12890
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA
Device: Sony PRS-505
In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text.

But if the spaces around emdashes were really hairline, maybe I just haven't noticed.

I don't think there's a difference between the UK and US here; just a difference between different publishers. Regarding my own publications, some of those published in the US and been done done one way and some the other, and some of my publications published in the UK have been done one way and some the other.

Personally I’ve been moving more and more in the direction of just using the actual characters, saved in utf-8, rather than the HTML character codes. (In part because this makes conversions between formats easier.) All recent (X)HTML-rendering programs should support either one.

Last edited by frabjous; 04-12-2010 at 02:27 PM.
frabjous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 10:37 PM   #4
charleski
Wizard
charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.charleski ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,188
Karma: 727236
Join Date: Sep 2009
Device: PRS-505
The Chicago Manual of Style recommends em-dashes without spaces, and the style originated with US publishers. Bringhurst recommends en-dashes spaced from the text, this originated with Penguin in the UK. But there's certainly a lot of crossover.

Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.
charleski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 02:43 AM   #5
neilmarr
neilmarr
neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.neilmarr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
neilmarr's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,230
Karma: 6000059
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Monaco-Menton, France
Device: sony
***In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text***

Our own house style, Frab and Charles, is spaced en dashes (also spaced ellipses). There's no hard-and-fast rule; we just feel this looks neater on the page (treebook or ebook). Like many fine points of style (presentation of figures, times of the day, dates, etc), I reckon what really matters is absolute consistency within any particular work. Cheers. Neil
neilmarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 03:16 AM   #6
Ea
Wizard
Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ea's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 5169119
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad 2|iPhone 4|Sony 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by charleski View Post
Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.
Exactly. When I format books for myself, I always add spaces around the dashes for this reason, and because it looks more aesthetically pleasing. No spaces gives it a very 'blocky' look. The rules are guide-lines and not the law, after all.
Ea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 04:50 AM   #7
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,001
Karma: 4346921
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Quote:
Originally Posted by frabjous View Post
In my experience, there are two common styles. One is to use em dashes—but without spaces—for interrupting text, and the other is to use en dashes – but with spaces – for interrupting text.
That's my impression too, though not being a native English speaker/reader I might be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charleski View Post
Since some readers don't recognise either form of dash as a word-boundary, I prefer spaced en-dashes to prevent awkward line-breaks.
Exactly my situation as well, I started using space-endash-space in my books because the mobi reader in my Cybook did not break at em-dashes.

Now I find the opposite situation in Adobe's ePUB engine: it breaks at em-dashes, which is wrong in Spanish typography, where dashes are typically spaced only on one side (the "outer" side), and line breaks are only allowed at the spaces.

Oh... ellipses I don't use, because I prefer dots separated by non-breaking spaces en English, and just three dots in Spanish. As for entities, I use them (instead of the unicode characters) when I can't easily enter them with my keyboard configuration, or when they are not clearly identifiable in monospaced fonts.

Last edited by Jellby; 04-13-2010 at 05:02 AM.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 11:41 AM   #8
=X=
Wizard
=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.=X= ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
=X='s Avatar
 
Posts: 3,672
Karma: 12205348
Join Date: Mar 2008
Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7
To build on HarryT post, most American English books have no spaces. Personally I like the look without spaces it is easier to see the break (interruption) and thus it is emphasized even more.

=X=
=X= is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 03:13 AM   #9
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,782
Karma: 40397151
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
Exactly my situation as well, I started using space-endash-space in my books because the mobi reader in my Cybook did not break at em-dashes.
In the later firmware, where hyphenation support was added to Mobi, it did start breaking lines at a dash, but even more horribly, it would then add a hyphen after the dash! I think this is clearly a bug in Mobi reader.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 04:44 AM   #10
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,001
Karma: 4346921
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
In the later firmware, where hyphenation support was added to Mobi, it did start breaking lines at a dash, but even more horribly, it would then add a hyphen after the dash! I think this is clearly a bug in Mobi reader.
Ah, yes, I forgot about that (at that time I was using space-dash-space already)
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 07:38 AM   #11
Valloric
Created Sigil, FlightCrew
Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Valloric ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Valloric's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,978
Karma: 350515
Join Date: Feb 2008
Device: Sony Reader PRS 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by =X= View Post
To build on HarryT post, most American English books have no spaces.
Really?Thatmustbeverydifficulttoread.Ican'timagine howyoumanage.

Valloric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thanks for new 'Smarten Punctuation' feature jackie_w Calibre 1 09-21-2010 02:53 PM
Punctuation Dresden Calibre 7 08-31-2010 05:14 AM
Correct formatting of punctuation ghostyjack Workshop 12 08-16-2010 01:36 PM
Vanishing punctuation Robotech_Master Calibre 25 06-01-2009 10:24 PM
Emdash - punctuation macro ProDigit Sony Reader 8 11-28-2008 02:32 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:41 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.