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Old 02-06-2010, 11:40 AM   #91
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I like the price differential between ads versus ad-free works. As an author, I would love for everyone to enjoy my stories for free, but we live in an economy of money, so I need to offset my costs (time, equipment, bandwidth, advertising). However, I envision a "google" like ad model where each chapter header contains a simple graphic that matches the content of the chapter (no, I don't know how), then if a consumer clicks on that ad (eBook with browser support), I get a small token. No clicks, then advertisers don't pay. Content based "google" advertising works on the web and is relatively low-key. A similar model could be applied to eBooks.
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Old 02-06-2010, 12:32 PM   #92
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I probably wouldn't recognize product placement anyways

I'd buy cheaper books with ads. But, I think this will cause geographic problems. What use are american adverts when I read the book in Austria?
There'd be a whole new "regionizing" thing going on which would be even more a pain in the neck than the georestrictions currently are.
Good point. It's possible that ad-loading scripts could input ads based on geo or IP data... but that would only work if an author had agreements with advertisers in most geographical areas... which probably isn't likely.

E-book ads may therefore be limited in scope to either globally-available products (like more e-books... why not?) or products that will only benefit limited geographical areas. Advertisers will have to accept the fact that their ads may be seen in locations that cannot buy from them.

Improving the international state of geo restrictions will obviously help, though worldwide shipping costs (for non-digital products) will still limit global purchases and deliveries.
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:16 AM   #93
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I like the price differential between ads versus ad-free works. As an author, I would love for everyone to enjoy my stories for free, but we live in an economy of money, so I need to offset my costs (time, equipment, bandwidth, advertising). However, I envision a "google" like ad model where each chapter header contains a simple graphic that matches the content of the chapter (no, I don't know how), then if a consumer clicks on that ad (eBook with browser support), I get a small token. No clicks, then advertisers don't pay. Content based "google" advertising works on the web and is relatively low-key. A similar model could be applied to eBooks.
Actually, that would be not so good for you. Google's model goes by ad views, not clicks.
Immagine you write a chapter where the main character goes out to some fancy restaurant. The chapter header-ad will then probably show some kind of weight-reduction thing.
Which I will probably not click on, but store in the back of my mind.
A friend of mine then complains about his weight, and I can then say "hey, I know of a solution" and point them to >insertweightreductioncompanyhere<



You, as the author, should get paid for putting up the ad, not for clicks/purchases.
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Old 02-08-2010, 08:18 AM   #94
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You, as the author, should get paid for putting up the ad, not for clicks/purchases.
Agreed: I think the only way this would work would be as an up-front single payment from the advertiser (possibly based on sales figures from similar or previous works) to the author, and not dependent on actual clicks. However, additional payments could be arranged for the author if the number of clicks surpasses a set point. That would allow a book that oversold expectations (and garnered more ad clicks) to make the author something additional.
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Old 02-08-2010, 12:50 PM   #95
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Any ad that interrupts the story will result in me saying nasty things about the Stories Author.
Why? The author allowed it. Stop.
That is why contracts are there. To prevent un-approved editorial changes.

Product placement, whether it be Cola or a Band, can become quickly dated unless the brand sets the period. (Remember the Coke that did not have a Screw top in Back to the Future?)
Publishers/Author advertising at the tail of a book never bothered me.
With e-books, active advertising eats Battery life, incurrs connection fees. I pay more in the end.
e-ink does not lend itself to motion (thank you), which is probably why the marketing push for LCD readers
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:27 PM   #96
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Methinks you overreact a bit here.

More than one of us has given good reason why the likelihood of animated, active ads in a static product like an e-book is slim. And the ads will likely be at the end of the book, possibly some before, and possibly at chapter breaks, thereby not interrupting the flow of the book (less than a TV commercial in a properly-segmented program, since you can flip right by it).

Finally, E Ink was pushed because of its visual similarity to paper, making it more popular with those who were not satisfied with LCD readability, and incidentally because of its low battery drain... not because it was not capable of animation.

I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding the contract, but don't forget: We are talking about an alternative way for authors who also work independently of publisher's contracts to profit from their work, whilst giving consumers a product for lower- to no-cost.
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:24 PM   #97
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Any ad that interrupts the story will result in me saying nasty things about the Stories Author.
How will a header-ad or a "buy this" line interrupt the story? I think our brains are already trained to overlook ads. We ignore those that are not of interest and we react to those that catch our eye ... I don't know if you use google mail, but apparently there are advertisements being shown that have some relation to the content of my email.
I say apparently, because I have yet to feel bothered by those ads. They're there, someone pays for them, and they must work since if they didn't, google would find some other way to make money.

I'm all for that.

What I don't need are overlays where the "x" is not actually the "close overlay" button but triggers the "tell me more" action.
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Old 02-08-2010, 02:30 PM   #98
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Methinks you overreact a bit here.

More than one of us has given good reason why the likelihood of animated, active ads in a static product like an e-book is slim. And the ads will likely be at the end of the book, possibly some before, and possibly at chapter breaks, thereby not interrupting the flow of the book (less than a TV commercial in a properly-segmented program, since you can flip right by it).

Finally, E Ink was pushed because of its visual similarity to paper, making it more popular with those who were not satisfied with LCD readability, and incidentally because of its low battery drain... not because it was not capable of animation.

I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding the contract, but don't forget: We are talking about an alternative way for authors who also work independently of publisher's contracts to profit from their work, whilst giving consumers a product for lower- to no-cost.
Contract allows control of what the Publisher does to your work.
If you place the product in your work, you did it to your epic
If the publisher places thing into your work, then you lost control.
Look at a certain books, movie series that controls extended even to the origin country of the actors.
Anything between chapters, drops me out of the story.
Maybe that is why I buy DVD's of television shows
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:03 PM   #99
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How will a header-ad or a "buy this" line interrupt the story? I think our brains are already trained to overlook ads. We ignore those that are not of interest and we react to those that catch our eye ...
And knowing this, why would any advertiser pay to have their ads included? Or why would they pay enough to compensate the author for (1) the hassle of ad inclusion and (2) the number of readers who will be annoyed and stop buying his books?

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I don't know if you use google mail, but apparently there are advertisements being shown that have some relation to the content of my email.
Yep. And sometimes, I click on them, because I read gmail on a computer connected to the web, and the contents of the ad are only a single click & a few seconds away. When I read a book on my Sony, it doesn't matter how fascinating the ad is--I'm not going to stop to visit its webpage or purchase its product.

The issue isn't "how can ads be included in ebooks?" That's easy. Hundreds of answers are possible.

The issue is, "how can ads be profitable for advertisers and simultaneously, not too annoying to readers?" This is especially important in cases where screen space is valuable; non-obtrusive web ads are small, but there is no "small but still readable" on a 6" screen.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done--but I certainly wouldn't trust the people who brought us the "punch the monkey" banner ads to figure it out. All they did is spur the creation of adblock software.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:40 PM   #100
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The issue is, "how can ads be profitable for advertisers and simultaneously, not too annoying to readers?" This is especially important in cases where screen space is valuable; non-obtrusive web ads are small, but there is no "small but still readable" on a 6" screen.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done--but I certainly wouldn't trust the people who brought us the "punch the monkey" banner ads to figure it out. All they did is spur the creation of adblock software.
This is where I see devices like the Nook, the Alex, and the Edge as the precursor to advertising effectively entering the eBook market. These devices have the capability to off-load active advertising content to a color medium beside the reading content. The ads could be active and touch-enabled while still relying on grabbing the attention of the reader.

In store coupons could become availlable when using the Nook in a Barnes and Nobels or when using the Alex in a Borders. There are many possibilities. The future looks more interesting that what is currently available in print and both exciting but also scary.
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Old 02-08-2010, 03:54 PM   #101
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The issue is, "how can ads be profitable for advertisers and simultaneously, not too annoying to readers?" This is especially important in cases where screen space is valuable; non-obtrusive web ads are small, but there is no "small but still readable" on a 6" screen.
For an advertiser, just getting the right ad in front of the right person meets their criteria, for their own stats show that a certain percent of those appropriate people will remember the product and buy, now or later. Clickable ads aren't even necessary... who can click through a TV ad?

As for the annoyance factor, I can only say that consumers seem to have an even higher annoyance factor than they themselves realize... despite their claims, most consumers put up with a lot of annoyance in order to get convenience somewhere else, and after a while, the annoyance doesn't even register with them anymore.

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I'm not saying it couldn't be done--but I certainly wouldn't trust the people who brought us the "punch the monkey" banner ads to figure it out. All they did is spur the creation of adblock software.
Adblock software was around well before animated and "punch the monkey" ads came along... and even now, with even more annoying ads than that about, not everyone uses adblock software. People have learned to ignore the ads... except when it sells something they are interested in... which, as it happens, is exactly what the advertisers want to happen.

So a lot of the anti-ad comments seem to be ultimately baseless, as most of the "never, never, never" people just end up watching the ads, despite their claims of ad hatred and product boycotting... many of them respond to the products, if they are properly targeted... and few negative repercussions seem to happen in the product world or the consumer world because of it. Generally, the only real result is better targeting, resulting in ads getting to the people who want to see them.

And that's why I'm less concerned with discussions of whether or not ads should be used, as I am with the best way to use them.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:07 PM   #102
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And that's why I'm less concerned with discussions of whether or not ads should be used, as I am with the best way to use them.
I couldn't have said it any better. The ads are coming as certain as it will rain some day.
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Old 02-08-2010, 04:33 PM   #103
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We put up with ads on websites so why not ads in free e-books? Similar kinds of content.

There is no way I'd put up with them in paid e-books, but in freebies they might be ok. I don't think e-pub supports them though.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:33 PM   #104
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I don't think e-pub supports them though.
Remember, ads can just be basic images and a link... ePub can handle that.
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Old 02-08-2010, 05:39 PM   #105
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I couldn't have said it any better.
Neither could I!
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