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Old 07-26-2006, 03:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribble
I think, they like us hacking into the machine and telling tem how we did it, so they can counter those measures. That gives them a closed environment based on an open source OS, with enogh security for their contentproviders and on the other hand enough freedom for the developers, to have make applications they want.

So lets keep testing the machine
Moreover, I think they have actually not countered our measures; just it happens they needed more controo on the pdf to store the pagenumber.

BUT they have also rewroten the configuration, wiping any new reader instaled in 2.4.
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Old 07-26-2006, 04:14 PM   #17
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I have just used the excellent user hack to switch on networking and used Putty to access the device in the hope that I can delete a corrupt pre update file so that I can upgrade to 2.5. When trying to delete the file I get an input/output error. I can rename the file, and this probably will be OK, but I do not dare update yet as I will not be able to gain access to permanently delete the file if i do. Can one of you Linux gurus tell me if there is a way to delete this file?
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Old 07-26-2006, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arivero
Moreover, I think they have actually not countered our measures; just it happens they needed more controo on the pdf to store the pagenumber.

BUT they have also rewroten the configuration, wiping any new reader instaled in 2.4.
Hmm, i think all the loopholes have been closed due to our findings.
Why should storing the pagenumber render the starting of external programms useless? I think the just turned off all links in xpdf, as normal links dont work either anymore.

They removed dropbear (still dont know, why it was on there).

They put a password on the root user.

But all aplications still seem to run as root.

As for wiping configs. I would think that they replaced the complete /etc/ folder and exchanged a few binaries. All my configfiles have been removed aswell.

Since there is no direct access method, there must be some way to flash the device.

The only open port now is 6000 which must be the X11 port.

So now we can only get root access in four ways i can think of.

find an exploit for the X11 on port 6000.
find an exploit with minimo.
find an exploit with xpdf.
find flash mechanism.

so far i dont know any. Do you?
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Old 07-26-2006, 05:29 PM   #19
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Hmhh it's an old version of the Gecko engine. Aren't there any leaks for it?
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribble
I think the just turned off all links in xpdf, as normal links dont work either anymore.
hmm... links inside a document (to some doc page) still work. About other links I don't know.

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Old 07-27-2006, 04:01 AM   #21
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Device: Iliad, dude!
So you guys think I belong to the meditation thread?

Possibly. I'm scared shitless of what's going on there. I get the impression that I spent a lot of money (I ebayed my Zaurus for this!) on the wrong device. I've spent enough time with programmers. My educated guess is that the firmware difference between the eFlyBook and our 2.5 is arinc.ipk. I just makes no sense to develop largely different firmwares on this system.

The picture in my head is that somebody looked an energy consumptions and figured the device could theoretically have about 15 hours battery if everything was turned off when not needed. And some sales guy / manager translated this to "work week times 3 hours", completely ignoring that "theoretically" doesn't mean "really". And now they struggled to increase battery time by addressing the worst energy consumer (cpu), proclaimed it'd by "8 hours", later reduce it to "greatly" and finally just get one additional hour. And next week they simply remove the 3xweek-announement from their website, just like they did with DRM.

And if I'm sitting here in some month with an Iliad with 5-8 hours battery and xpdf rendering my pages in 20 seconds, I truly spent an awful amount of money for something that's not nearly worth it.

And so far, all my pessimistic assumptions came true (or were too optimistic).
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:08 AM   #22
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well you would have thought getting the power saving would be one of the first things you would implement.
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiljo
hmm... links inside a document (to some doc page) still work. About other links I don't know.

wiljo
Really? I will try.

EDITED: I have tried. They work. Amusing.

Last edited by arivero; 07-27-2006 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 07-27-2006, 04:56 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribble
Hmm, i think all the loopholes have been closed due to our findings.
Why should storing the pagenumber render the starting of external programms useless? I think the just turned off all links in xpdf, as normal links dont work either anymore.
In 2.4 links were turned off after the second page because at such moment you had already pressed some key and control was dependent someway of iRex software. Now in 2.5

AGAIN, and this is the second time, we have a contradictory report: wiljo tells that internal links (such as footnote jumping etc) do work. [EDITED: here my vote goes with wiljo. I have tested the pdf specification document, and it jumps]


Quote:
As for wiping configs. I would think that they replaced the complete /etc/ folder and exchanged a few binaries. All my configfiles have been removed aswell.
Actually they have a directory (/mnt/configs or something so) exactly to prvent the removal of configurations; the file in /etc is theoretically obsolete, as the registry loads from the file in /var (which in turn is a link to /mnt/...). But the install of 2.5 still does not take care very well of the saved config, it seems, if everything disappears (well, username is kept).

Last edited by arivero; 07-27-2006 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 07-27-2006, 05:57 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali
The picture in my head is that somebody looked an energy consumptions and figured the device could theoretically have about 15 hours battery if everything was turned off when not needed. And some sales guy / manager translated this to "work week times 3 hours", completely ignoring that "theoretically" doesn't mean "really". And now they struggled to increase battery time by addressing the worst energy consumer (cpu), proclaimed it'd by "8 hours", later reduce it to "greatly" and finally just get one additional hour. And next week they simply remove the 3xweek-announement from their website, just like they did with DRM.
Welcome to the world of marketing. Personally, I see an increase in battery life by 22 % as good news. And if they can continue to make improvement then this would be even better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ali
And if I'm sitting here in some month with an Iliad with 5-8 hours battery and xpdf rendering my pages in 20 seconds, I truly spent an awful amount of money for something that's not nearly worth it.
Um... Well yes, thats what we were told before we bought it... The Illiad is a work in progress of a new type of technology. I see the Illiad as getting in on the bottom rung of something that could change how we view books and electronic documents.

Oh, and which would you prefer...? The Sony Reader released sometime whenever, or a pre-release Illiad now, and improving over time...? I'm guessing both products will be "finished" at the same time. Just we get to play with the Illiad now.
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Old 07-27-2006, 06:09 AM   #26
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can people guess at what savings are still to be made?
1. variable cpu speed
2. suspend when not doing anything
3. turn off wlan when not being used
4. wacom off when pen in holder
5. optimizing apps to be more efficient

what has been done so far?
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Old 07-27-2006, 07:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadite66
can people guess at what savings are still to be made?
1. variable cpu speed
2. suspend when not doing anything
3. turn off wlan when not being used
4. wacom off when pen in holder
5. optimizing apps to be more efficient

what has been done so far?
#4 is implemented in 2.5
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Old 07-27-2006, 07:24 AM   #28
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#3 seems to work aswell. At lesat i dont see the wlan card anymore. And the dhcp polling has stopped (in /var/log/messages).
#1 seems to be at least partially implemented, as the battery drains alot less, when the iLiad is just lying around.
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:15 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ali
The picture in my head is that somebody looked an energy consumptions and figured the device could theoretically have about 15 hours battery if everything was turned off when not needed.
If the Zaurus C860 can do it with a TINY battery, the iLiad can do it too: Go to and from standby in no time. Run forever.

Last edited by R2D2; 07-27-2006 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 07-27-2006, 08:25 AM   #30
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whats the size of the battery in a zaurus, and how long does it run?
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