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Old 01-19-2010, 10:22 PM   #31
Randolphlalonde
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My post was leading this thread off topic. I apologize.

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Old 01-19-2010, 10:46 PM   #32
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When they start stealing the work that has a cover price associated with it, they're literally taking bread off the table.
As an author, it would probably be advantageous to you to learn the definition of the word "literally." The only way someone can "literally take bread off the table" is by walking up to a table and removing bread from it. Literally means actually doing exactly what is said.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:28 PM   #33
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Actually, before ebooks became as mainstream as they are now, I corresponded with an author who deeply resented the way Amazon was encouraging customers to sell their used copies of books, because she didn't get a cut. (My suggestion to her was to set up her own Amazon affiliate store, list all her books, and advertise that store heavily as a way for her fans to support her while still saving money on used books.)

I think we do need a more nuanced understanding of the issues of darknet distribution of ebooks (and other media). While I strongly agree that authors need to be compensated for their work, I'm not convinced that darknet downloads are seriously impacting the book buying habits of readers... or the incomes of writers. That's why I think terms like "theft" or "piracy" are misleading. They try to draw an analogy to the world of atoms, when we're talking about the world of bits. We need new metaphors.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:18 PM   #34
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Actually, before ebooks became as mainstream as they are now, I corresponded with an author who deeply resented the way Amazon was encouraging customers to sell their used copies of books, because she didn't get a cut.
There was a big stink over that at the time. The guild was told to STFU, as they should have been.

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/1291
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ardeegee View Post
There was a big stink over that at the time. The guild was told to STFU, as they should have been.

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/1291
Is the Guild anything but a joke now? Especially after the text-to-speech kerfuflle.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:32 PM   #36
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Is the Guild anything but a joke now? Especially after the text-to-speech kerfuflle.
I don't see how they can be.

Especially as not one of them posting in the long and contentious threads about here ever mentioned that the reason there has to be a different contract for a audio book is that there is generally a voice actor reading the work, who is also payed royalties. the royalties have to be rendered in such a way that everyone gets paid.

With text to speech, the author of the TTS only gets royalties on each copy of the program sold to the hardware manufacturer, not each file run through the program.

The whole manufactured issue of less royalties was pushed here while attempting to gloss over the lack of a voice actor.

By people who claimed to understand the law involved.
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:38 PM   #37
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How are they going to make their payments on their 3rd yacht
Unfortunately this site isn't as satirical as it should be. Actual story on CNN today: http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/20/real...x.htm?hpt=Sbin
Headline: $8M in assets & can't get a mortgage

I wish I could believe that CNN was being sarcastic, but I can't. Depressing.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:06 PM   #38
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I think that the publishers are over-playing their hand. Borrowing is a part of human life and you can't regulate every tiny thing. For example:

- My mother has cable television. I do not. Yet, I can go to my mother's any time I want and watch her cable television. Does this mean that the cable company is 'losing a sale' over this? Should they have the right to tell me I cannot visit my mother, or that I can but she is forbidden from accessing the cable television while I do so?

- I have often invited friends over for an evening. Sometimes, we will decide to watch a dvd. If the dvd is one that my friend does not own and perhaps will not buy now that they have seen it for free at my house, does that mean I should not be allowed to have friends over, or that I am allowed but cannot watch a dvd while they are over?

- Or how about bigger things like swimming pools or major appliances? People often used to get my grandfather to do certain small projects for them because he has a large collection of power tools. Did that translate into fewer of my relatives purchasing their own power tools? Can one say conclusively that they would have bought the power tools (or swimming pool or large van or whatever the item might be) if they did not have a relative who had one?
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:23 PM   #39
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Not only have the libraries bought the books, we pay a fee for using the library. I guess your mother should charge you for visiting.
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Old 01-20-2010, 03:33 PM   #40
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Borrowing is a part of human life and you can't regulate every tiny thing.
I bolded the key word there. If, using your example, Time-Warner, Universal Studios, GM, and Black and Decker could prevent you from watching somebody else's TV, watching a DVD with friends, or borrowing somebody's truck or power tools, they'd almost certainly try to, regardless of how idiotic or short-sighted doing so might be.
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:45 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by ficbot View Post
I think that the publishers are over-playing their hand. Borrowing is a part of human life and you can't regulate every tiny thing. For example:

- My mother has cable television. I do not. Yet, I can go to my mother's any time I want and watch her cable television. Does this mean that the cable company is 'losing a sale' over this? Should they have the right to tell me I cannot visit my mother, or that I can but she is forbidden from accessing the cable television while I do so?

- I have often invited friends over for an evening. Sometimes, we will decide to watch a dvd. If the dvd is one that my friend does not own and perhaps will not buy now that they have seen it for free at my house, does that mean I should not be allowed to have friends over, or that I am allowed but cannot watch a dvd while they are over?

- Or how about bigger things like swimming pools or major appliances? People often used to get my grandfather to do certain small projects for them because he has a large collection of power tools. Did that translate into fewer of my relatives purchasing their own power tools? Can one say conclusively that they would have bought the power tools (or swimming pool or large van or whatever the item might be) if they did not have a relative who had one?
Whilst I totally agree with your point I find it humorous that you should use analogue examples as analogies. Humorous because around here, every time someone uses an analogue analogy to explain why they believe file-sharing is wrong they are invariably "shouted down"(so to speak) for using out-dated and inappropriate analogies.



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Old 01-20-2010, 11:58 PM   #42
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All right, here is a digital example I have been to several events where the DJ has had nothing but a Macbook, an iTunes playlist and a really good set of speakers. I have spent several hours at these events listening to digital music I did not pay for.

Here is another example. I have visited my techie sister and mucked around on her computer while I was there. She let me look through her ebooks. Most of them did not interest me (she reads a lot of erotica; I do not) but there were at least two that I read in their entirety on her Palm organizer while I was there, and there were a handful of others I might have otherwise bought but I browsed for long enough to know they weren't my thing. Those might technically be 'lost sales.' But then again, I could go to a paper bookstore and browse a book there and decide not to buy it, so this is the same thing.
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:40 AM   #43
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As a retired librarian, I can't agree more. Libraries are and have always been unAmerican and a capitalist's nightmare. Thank Heavens the damage can't be undone. However, no one silences anyone in today's library and you can renew your overdues on line! Today's librarians don't deserve yesterdays stereotype. Amen.
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Do you expect that print books will only be read by one person, the original purchaser? Do you think of every used copy sold at a yard sale as lost royalties and cheating you out of your rightful payment?

Much of the problems with ebook filesharing is that there's no simple, legal way to transfer ownership or loan them out, the way that's done with pbooks. And authors have *never* been able to expect 1 purchase=1 reader.

With ebooks, there's the issue that it's as easy to make a copy as to loan the original. Easier, in many cases; removing data from a hard drive is harder than copying it. But if the DRM servers allowed one user to transfer ownership of their ebook files to someone else by sending in an email ("send a transfer code to email X; when it goes through, un-authorize my computer/kindle/PDA from this ebook"), there'd be a lot less incentive to crack DRM, and a lot less feeling of "now that I've done all that work so I can let my friend read it, why not just share it with the world?"

Ebook filesharing started as scans-and-conversions of books that weren't available as ebooks. (My txt copy of Dragonriders of Pern is dated 1998.) It continued, and grew, as commercial ebooks became available, because publishers decided to exploit a business model that wasn't possible with physical books: prevent transfer of ownership, so every reader would have to make a separate purchase!

Had they also charged 1/3 the paperback price for these books, people might've calmly accepted that. When they charge the same or comparable amounts for paper & ebook editions, they can expect readers to demand the same freedoms with their purchases.
Yup...what about those EVIL used bookstores...those are and have long been a target of the publishing industry. If publishers want something eradicated from he face of the earth it is the ability to sell used books, even antique classics.

And it is absolutely right that the publishing industry wants ebooks treated as software not as books. This means limited rights to transefer ownership, though most software today does allow the transefer of ownership for software if the original owner deregiters it with the creator.

The whole publishing industry seems more like a Laurel & Hardy meets the Marx brothers sort of thing. And toss in The Thief Who Came to Dinner...or worse...

I pretty much don't even read it anymore because it is always the same BS just different day. I paid for it, I will give it away or loan it out as I see fit. If the industry was smart they would setup a system to allow people to loan out books one at a time and charge one of the parties a $1 fee per loan...most people would be happy to pay it...better yet price books cheaper so it is more problematic to circumvent the whole scheme than to spend $4 to just buy the book.
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