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Old 01-17-2010, 08:13 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
if you get your way, the book won't sell. And the publisher won't know why it's not selling other then it's not selling at Amazon.
So, maybe the publisher and/or author won't want to sell via Amazon for the eBook. Now, all the Kindle users who do want that author's eBooks won't get it. All you do is try to hurt the innocent. Now if you get all those people to email the publisher and/or author, you may have more impact on a positive note instead of "it just doesn't sell".
I'm NOT TALKING DIRECTLY TO THE PUBLISHER. Please read my posts. (Although even if I was, then the 1-star reviews are just another way of getting more people to tell the publisher, and are thus worthwhile anyway even under that strategy).

In the medium to long term, the way to make ebooks accessible is for only accessible ebooks to be bought. Publishers don't give a crap about any specific person not buying, but they will care about sales rankings - if the accessible ebooks are selling better overall, then they will notice - and it's via reaching the customers that this will occur.

And the author is certainly going to care, if they have any clue whatsoever about new media (And if they don't, then they're going to bleed sales anyway).

I have no sympathy for companies trying hard not to sell to me. I'm quite willing to give them rope.

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Old 01-17-2010, 08:40 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by DawnFalcon View Post
I have no sympathy for companies trying hard not to sell to me. I'm quite willing to give them rope.
Shouldn't you have given old Karl Marx credit for that quote? Taken from his "the last capitalist will sell to the communists the rope with which he will be hanged?" (or something like that, even though it didn't quite work out that way?)
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Old 01-17-2010, 10:19 PM   #93
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Because that's a -bluntly - naive and unrealistic view of what will actually happen, for many people. The people giving 1 star reviews show the author that there's a market for ebooks, if they make them available promptly and at a sensible price.

Other people, a lot of other people? Already downloaded it from the darknet and are reading it. More restrictions will only push this ratio up. It's deliberately self-destructive behaviour from the publishers which clearly shows they're ignoring the lessons of the music industry.

By giving those reviews thumbs down, you're supporting unauthorised copying by helping ti hide the consequences of the decisions which are boosting darknet usage. Plain and simple. Think not only about your actions, but the full consequences of those actions.

Amazon show both high and low score review when you look at a book, it's not like it stops you from - easily - seeing high scoring reviews or anything.

(Me? I've bought it second hand, and sent a picture of the book with the receipt on it to the author. And I'll be buying his books second hand for some years to come.)
actually it is far from naive, but rather I am being realistic. Be honest with yourself and see the reason you might be bothered by this is because you want it now and are not willing to tell yourself no and move on to any of a zillion other options. Would you say the same thing about movies released in theaters but the DVD is not released for many months?

People who are bothered by delayed release of ebooks are, if they are honest with themselves, by the fact they feel excluded and cannot have what they want when they want it. Mind I am in no way saying ebook releases should not coincide with new releases of a book, but this is how it is accept it, life is far to short and we all have man, many other options. If people simply have the discipline to NOT buy the print version when no ebook option exists then that will get the publisher's attention...posting a review with the look and feel of a petulant child will get laughed off into the ether...

Still I completely in favor of creating organized efforts to encourage publishers to put out electronic versions sooner...but not in acting out of frustration and restraint.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:16 AM   #94
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Sigh. This is not about individuals, it's about market behavior. I, myself, completely refuse to purchase DRM'ed books, preferring second hand books. So you're quite wrong on my motivations.

Deliberately refusing to sell to people is one of the major drivers of the darknet. Oh, you can't stop people from using the darknet, but as the music industry shows you can get them to pay as well. All they're doing is cutting themselves out of potential revenue.

And once more, this is not about reaching the publisher. They're not going to change path unless either the general public or authors tell them to, and Amazon reviews are tools for reaching those audiences, not publishers.

You may chose to laugh, and to ignore the evidence of what happens, but it's the same for all IP industries and I - working in that field - can't afford to. Literally.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:31 AM   #95
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This is not the first time that some internet system has been seized on to be used in a fashion not anticipated by the designers. Heck, the internet itself is such a system. If there's One Rule That Rules Them All, it seems to me that on the internet, a system is what the users use it for, not what the designers intend it for.

My personal approach, though, is not to protest. I figure that the publishers have made their decision, so now I will make mine.

When I look for an ebook, I always start with Inkmesh or AddAll to scope out the existence of the book in ebook form. If I find it, I buy it - or not - based on whether I think the price is right. But if I don't find it for sale at all in ebook form, buying the book in first sale pbook form becomes my very last choice. The publisher usually loses the sale.
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Old 01-18-2010, 02:32 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by charleski View Post
LOL, this whole protest is certainly well within Amazon's interests. Of course they're going to bend their rules to allow it to go ahead.

Personally, I'd think twice before becoming Amazon's stooge in a fight between them and the publishers. Like any company, Amazon's only real priority is its own bottom line.
It is also in Fictionwise's best interests, and books on board, etc.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:11 AM   #97
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LOL, this whole protest is certainly well within Amazon's interests. Of course they're going to bend their rules to allow it to go ahead.

Personally, I'd think twice before becoming Amazon's stooge in a fight between them and the publishers. Like any company, Amazon's only real priority is its own bottom line.
Of course, and we buyers want to save money, so our priority is our bottom line. Nothing wrong with that, especially when Amazon improving their results helps us getting ebooks earlier and easier. Companies exist to make money, as long as they provide good products and good service, I will be glad to support them.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:33 AM   #98
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Also, it gets noticed. Authors being incessant egosurfers and all.

Jeffrey Ford, demonstrating how not to sell books :-

"'Righteous Protests From the Untalented'

"Hmmmm. Interesting phenomenon over at Amazon.com. It seems my books The Drowned Life and The Shadow Year have been "blacklisted and georestricted," by the prolific idiot reviewer Blue Tyson, whose three word reviews litter the SF/F landscape like rabbit pellets. He gives it one star and here's what he says, "This book is georestricted and hence will not be bought. Unfortunately it is probably good, too." I had to look this term up to see what it meant. I saw on Caitlin Kiernan's blog that her work has gotten the same treatment. Somebody there wrote in to say that it has to do with the fact that Tyson lives in Australia and, since he can't download the book due to the fact it is geo restricted, is giving it one star and "blacklisting" it. Ha. What douche bag. A bad review from that guy has probably sold a few copies already."

[A not very erudite insult, either from someone who claims he has talent]

http://14theditch.livejournal.com/332042.html

Daniel Suarez, similarly :-

"Hey, a**hole, how about sticking with the free stuff and not messing with writers on Amazon trying to make a living."

http://freesf.blogspot.com/2010/01/f...el-suarez.html

and Caitlin R. Kiernan (an author whose work I like more than Ford's) :-

Absolving herself of any responsibility (as do many of them), and also somewhat ignorant of how it works :-

" His complaint is with Amazon.com, and maybe my publisher, but you do not express your displeasure by attacking in such a way as to harm the author, as though we have some say in the matter. It's comes across petulant and childish."

http://greygirlbeast.livejournal.com...16399#t8016399

Jesse Bullington , demonstrating his cluelessless on this, :-

"Re: georestricted
I got hit by the same crumb this morning, a copy/paste job for sure--and here I though I was special:/ What's really weird is my publisher distributed the book in Australia, so yeah, it must have something to do with Kindle whatsits--like region coding on dvds."

http://greygirlbeast.livejournal.com...26127#t8026127
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:36 AM   #99
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Or, if anyone else feels like a 1 star georestriction review, these are the ones people have told me have stuck their necks out so far.

'The Drowned Life and The Shadow Year' - Jeffrey Ford
'Freedom and Daemon - Daniel Suarez'
'The Red Tree - Caitlin R. Kiernan'
'The Sad Tale Of the Brothers Grossbart - Jesse Bullington'

Pick Ford or Suarez if you just want one.

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Old 01-18-2010, 05:07 AM   #100
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Good. Maybe next time the author will go to the different publisher.

That's the whole point isn't it?
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:23 AM   #101
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And from a point about the darknet, earlier

These are all available for free :-

Daemon - Daniel Suarez
The Shadow Year - Jeffrey Ford
The Red Tree - Caitlin R. Kiernan
The Sad Tale of the Brothers Grossbart - Jesse Bullington
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Old 01-18-2010, 06:10 AM   #102
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Few people will buy just looking at a ratings chart. They will read through a number of the ratings to weed out the trolls and see more details.
Absolutely true.

Noone is buying books by looking for 5 star rating books on amazon. People hear about a book from other people, magazins, forums, newspapers, then come to amazon to read reviews, not just look at star rating. Anyone who does otherwise is plain stupid and should not read books (and they don't).
I think only some books are being sold like that to people who cannot think for themselves. How to loose 20 kg in 20 seconds etc. These people are not readers. Just a herd of easily manipulated consumers who follow the crowd and TV shops.
People who buy fiction or serious non-fiction, whose habbit of reading is their hobby, they would never buy a book based on how many stars it got on amazon without digging deeper.
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Old 01-18-2010, 06:18 AM   #103
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The other side of this is that author apathy and an unwillingness to deal with the new realities of a digital world means the publishing industry is going to find it very, very easy indeed to stiff most of them with very poor contracts.

I think over the next few years quite a lot of authors are going to get a shock.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:10 AM   #104
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Absolutely true.

Noone is buying books by looking for 5 star rating books on amazon. People hear about a book from other people, magazins, forums, newspapers, then come to amazon to read reviews, not just look at star rating. Anyone who does otherwise is plain stupid and should not read books (and they don't).
I think only some books are being sold like that to people who cannot think for themselves. How to loose 20 kg in 20 seconds etc. These people are not readers. Just a herd of easily manipulated consumers who follow the crowd and TV shops.
People who buy fiction or serious non-fiction, whose habbit of reading is their hobby, they would never buy a book based on how many stars it got on amazon without digging deeper.
I mentioned earlier that I use the aggregate ratings quite a bit. If I see a book with many reviews and a low rating I immediately remove it from my Amazon Recommendations. I don't even consider it because I don't have time to be reading dozens of reviews for a book which I probably won't buy anyway.

When I am considering a textbook I will usually narrow the selection down to half a dozen books with 4 or 5 star ratings on Amazon and then read some of the reviews to get a feel for the books.

I take offence at being called "stupid" and being told "not to read". My system may not be perfect (I'm sure there are plenty of good books I've missed) but it allows me to spend more time reading quality books than wading through book reviews.

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Old 01-18-2010, 07:17 AM   #105
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it allows me to spend more time reading quality books than wading through book reviews.
Have you ever checked on how many other reviwes were posted by many of 5 star review posters? I always do. Would you believe it that probably 1/3 of them have only 1 review? Do you know what it means? The same applies to 1 star reviews. On amazon you can never ever reply solely on a nicely posted review with 5 or 1 star rating. Many of them are dummies. I know it is disappointing but it is the reality whether you like it or not.

Sorry for offending you.
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