Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Which one should I buy?

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-01-2006, 09:37 PM   #1
shousa
Groupie
shousa doesn't littershousa doesn't littershousa doesn't litter
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 232
Join Date: May 2006
Ebook readers the next Dodo?

Are ebook readers doomed to extinction?
________________________________________________
Sony - with content likely only downloadable from Connect.com and that being in massive trouble at the moment plus their record with the Librie in Japan I would have to say I would rate their chance of extinction as "Very high".
________________________________________________
Hanlin V2 - can put free content on easily BUT....I received the following answers from "May" at "Jinke". I rate their chance of extinction as "High".

1) If I buy DRM protected Acrobat Ebooks from Amazon.com can I read them on the V2 and V8?
May's answer - No, you can't read them on the V2 and V8.

2) If I buy DRM protected Acrobat Ebooks from Amazon.com that normally I
could keep forever - could I keep them forever on the V2 and V8?
(I only ask because Sony Librie Ebook reader has a 60-day time limit).
May's Answer - No, you can't.

Even though the Hanlin Reader can read NATIVE PDFs and runs on LINUX they could not think to allow DRM...C'mon!!
________________________________________________

Iliad - the only one of three that will allow DRM PDF content (they say it will happen but it has not happened yet) and therefore the only one, it seems to me anyway, that will not "tie" you to certain ebook stores that have an agreement with an ebook manufacturer. Price is very high though. I rate the chance of extinction as "Medium".


So there you have it. I believe it is likely ebook readers will do exactly what they have done in the past. Remember stories you have read on the net about people buying previous ebook readers? Remember the limited content? Remember the "tied" ebook stores? Remember the ebook prices often being the same even as a paperback? It goes on and on and on.

Those who ignore history are certainly doomed to repeat it. I, sad to say, have now totally given up. I will not buy an ebook reader and you will not see me on this board again (though you guys have all been very helpful..sniff )

I will buy either a computer controlled telescope for $291 or the unbelievable ultimate gadget (unique) for $399 the Celestron SkyScout
http://www.celestron.com/skyscout/new/

Good bye and good luck,

Shousa
shousa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 12:34 AM   #2
bingle
Addict
bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 273
Karma: 499
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Device: Sony Reader
DRM is terrible for many reasons, one of which is that it puts control of the hardware in the DRM authors' or licensors' hands. I imagine Hanlin is not big enough or rich enough to negotiate with Amazon to include DRM decoding on their device. This is much the way Creative can't get protected Apple AAC files to play on their devices - it's not from lack of wanting, trust me. Likewise, it's not Hanlin's fault that Amazon's DRM doesn't work with their system - I'm sure that, given the chance, they would implement it.

Of course, this doesn't help you, the hapless ebook consumer. But refusing to support places that use DRM (or at least, proprietary DRM) is the only way to possibly get them to change their evil ways. As a consumer, you don't *want* DRM on your books. Tell Amazon that in the only way they understand!

Personally, I will never buy a proprietary DRM product. I'll pirate them first. If they want my money, they can give me a format that's convenient for me, not convenient for them.
bingle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 02:16 AM   #3
shousa
Groupie
shousa doesn't littershousa doesn't littershousa doesn't litter
 
Posts: 181
Karma: 232
Join Date: May 2006
Completely disagree

Quote:
Originally Posted by bingle
DRM is terrible for many reasons, one of which is that it puts control of the hardware in the DRM authors' or licensors' hands. I imagine Hanlin is not big enough or rich enough to negotiate with Amazon to include DRM decoding on their device. This is much the way Creative can't get protected Apple AAC files to play on their devices - it's not from lack of wanting, trust me. Likewise, it's not Hanlin's fault that Amazon's DRM doesn't work with their system - I'm sure that, given the chance, they would implement it.
Sorry to disagree but this simply is not correct in the case of Acrobat Ebook reader files. They do not have to make any "agreement" with Amazon or anyone else that supplies ebooks. Go to Adobe's site for details - anyone can make hardware and software to do it - they are CHOOSING not to do it so they can make money from ebook stores - pure and simple.

Now that was my last post!!
Sayonara!!
shousa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 03:57 AM   #4
Stuart Young
MobileRead Editor
Stuart Young has learned how to buy an e-book online
 
Stuart Young's Avatar
 
Posts: 195
Karma: 75
Join Date: May 2006
Location: London
Device: e61i / Eee PC / PRS-505
I think the ebook Market will exploded, just as the MP3 market has. People said the same thing when that started up.. DRM asside I have a business and a personal need to be able to view text formats e.g. PDF or html on the move without having to worry about a laptop.

RSS is now going very main stream an App which synched content from your favorite site for you to read on the subway would be great. Better yet if it has wifi or bluetooth you could in theory wake up and your morning paper has been delivered direct to your device.

my 2 cents
Stuart Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 06:08 AM   #5
Snappy!
Addict
Snappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura aboutSnappy! has a spectacular aura about
 
Snappy!'s Avatar
 
Posts: 260
Karma: 4256
Join Date: Feb 2006
Device: SHARP Zaurus C1000
http://partners.adobe.com/public/dev...sdk/index.html

Acrobat 7 SDK full installer
The full installation contains all of the sample code and documentation for development with the Acrobat API using C, C++, or Visual Basic.
Download for Linux (TAR.GZ: 50.0M)
Download for Solaris (TAR.GZ: 50.0M)

There is an SDK for linux.
Snappy! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 06:39 AM   #6
CommanderROR
eink fanatic
CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.
 
CommanderROR's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,022
Karma: 4924
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2
if tehere is an sdk for linux, somebody could make a drm reader for both iliad anf hanlin...but I'd prefer them to just kill drm...^^
CommanderROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 07:39 AM   #7
tribble
iLiad Maniac
tribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it is
 
tribble's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,382
Karma: 2369
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany
Device: Bookeen Opus (i love that thing) and iPad (what an irony)
Well, the only really good reason for DRM i can see is use in a library. The you can borrow a book just as you would now.
tribble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 08:15 AM   #8
CommanderROR
eink fanatic
CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.
 
CommanderROR's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,022
Karma: 4924
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2
right you are tribble!

I'm a bit worried about the state of ebooks right now...I had been expecting the first round of devices to come out in spring, but apart from the chinese market (Hanlin V8) there is NOTHING!
In Germany you can't even pick up one of the "oldies" like the ebookwise 1150, the only way to read ebooks here is PDA or Cybook (though that doesn't come in a german version either so it could stop some people here from buying and it's useless anyway because you have to recharge it almost constantly aparently).
CommanderROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 02:42 PM   #9
bingle
Addict
bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 273
Karma: 499
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Device: Sony Reader
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribble
Well, the only really good reason for DRM i can see is use in a library. The you can borrow a book just as you would now.
That's ridiculous, though. The reason for libraries to exist is to provide copies of works available to everyone. Due to the physical nature of books, though, only one person can have a book at a time - so they need to return it!

But in the modern world, everyone can have a copy of the book at the same time. There's no physical object to worry about, so the goal of the library is even easier to meet: they can provide copes of works to everyone, all the time!

Changing the way bits work in order to try to hold on to the physical limitations we've faced in the past is incredibly backwards. If we invented Star Trek-style replicators, allowing us to create food for everyone on the planet instantly, why would we work really hard to reintroduce food shortages? If we invented teleportation, allowing us to instantly travel anywhere in the world, why would we put in delays so that it still takes days to travel across a continent?

We are in a point of history that has been dreamed about since the library of Alexandria, where all humankind can have access for free to all the worlds' information, and we're desperately trying to undo it. It's enough to make one lose faith in humanity.

Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to attack you or anything, or suggest that your position on libraries is "ridiculous", it was just a good jumping-off point for my rant about DRM. Sorry! ;-)

Last edited by bingle; 06-02-2006 at 03:05 PM.
bingle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 03:02 PM   #10
bingle
Addict
bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 273
Karma: 499
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Device: Sony Reader
Quote:
Originally Posted by shousa
Sorry to disagree but this simply is not correct in the case of Acrobat Ebook reader files. They do not have to make any "agreement" with Amazon or anyone else that supplies ebooks. Go to Adobe's site for details - anyone can make hardware and software to do it - they are CHOOSING not to do it so they can make money from ebook stores - pure and simple.

Now that was my last post!!
Sayonara!!

I'm not sure about this. It certainly seems that way from Adobe's site, but there are stories all over the internet about DRM protected ebooks not working under Linux - apparently the Linux community has been asking for DRM support from Adobe for a while. If it were possible for developers to do on their own, it seems like someone would have just made a DRM-enabled PDF reader for Linux.

Also, Adobe's ebooks site specifies that the software will work only on Mac OS and Windows. Of course, that could be simply because they don't want to point to any competitor's software for other OSes.

All in all, I can't tell whether anyone can create a reader for protected PDFs for free. It certainly seems that Adobe is more open than I gave them credit for, but I'm still not sure whether they're *that* open. In any case, it would seem like a good tack for Hanlin to take, since it seems Adobe isn't exerting Apple-like levels of control over their DRM, anyway.
bingle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 03:31 PM   #11
tribble
iLiad Maniac
tribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it istribble knows what time it is
 
tribble's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,382
Karma: 2369
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Germany
Device: Bookeen Opus (i love that thing) and iPad (what an irony)
[QUOTE]That's ridiculous, though. The reason for libraries to exist is to provide copies of works available to everyone. Due to the physical nature of books, though, only one person can have a book at a time - so they need to return it!

But in the modern world, everyone can have a copy of the book at the same time. There's no physical object to worry about, so the goal of the library is even easier to meet: they can provide copes of works to everyone, all the time![\QUOTE]

Hmm, that would only be true, if the authors are giving away their work for free. Nobody would ever buy a book again. I dont think thats very realistic what you say.

On the other hand, while books can be lend like physical books (payed for like now) you can keep the same system working. You can even get the advantage of receiving your book without leaving your home.


Quote:
Changing the way bits work in order to try to hold on to the physical limitations we've faced in the past is incredibly backwards.
Not really. Unless you are willing to pay the authors for their work.

Quote:
If we invented Star Trek-style replicators, allowing us to create food for everyone on the planet instantly, why would we work really hard to reintroduce food shortages? If we invented teleportation, allowing us to instantly travel anywhere in the world, why would we put in delays so that it still takes days to travel across a continent?
Have you ever thought, of what resources you need to do those things? Energy would be a major factor here. If you dont have that, you get shortages and delays. Who is paying for all that in the Star Trek Universe? Ever thought about that?

Quote:
We are in a point of history that has been dreamed about since the library of Alexandria, where all humankind can have access for free to all the worlds' information, and we're desperately trying to undo it. It's enough to make one lose faith in humanity.
Well, knowledge should be accessible to everyone, but on the other hand, we live in a capitalistic world. Nothing is for free. Everything works with profit. Nobody funds research, if there is no profit to be made. People are just not the selfless good people you want them to be.

Quote:
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not trying to attack you or anything, or suggest that your position on libraries is "ridiculous", it was just a good jumping-off point for my rant about DRM. Sorry! ;-)
No problem. I dont like DRM either. Id rather see no DRM and reasonable prices for ebooks. I still believe people want to be honest, if the price is right.
tribble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 06:25 PM   #12
CommanderROR
eink fanatic
CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.CommanderROR is fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.
 
CommanderROR's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,022
Karma: 4924
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Device: STAReBOOK, iRex Iliad, Sony 505, Kindle 2
Libraries are book-lenders.
If you want to own a book you have to buy it...that's the difference. I think I'd lik to keep it that way.
Imagine what would happen if everybody could just grab a book from the library for free (or for the few bucks a library membership costs per year) and keep it.
Bookstores wouldn't make any more profit, authors wouldn't earn much...so in the case of libraries a "countdown would be cool...you could still "own" the book by borrowing it again and again, but that wouldn't be worth the hassle.
You borrow a book, read it and it "vanishes" or expires and doesn't take up any space.

If you want a book you really love and read and reread it over and over again or use it as a reference work for an ongoing project you can buy it.

Where I see DRM as impractical is with books you buy. I don't want to have books I'll always have to be afraid will suddenly stop working if I put them on another device or store them in a backup folder somewhere.
I buy a paper book and can do wahtever I like with it including reselling it (with ebooks you have the problem that you don't lose the book if you resell it...but I doubt this would be a large-scale problem anyway) and tearing it apart and using hte pages as toilet paper.
Any DRM that makes ebooks more restrictive that paper books is bad.
End of Story...for me at least.
CommanderROR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 11:11 PM   #13
bingle
Addict
bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 273
Karma: 499
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Device: Sony Reader
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribble
Have you ever thought, of what resources you need to do those things? Energy would be a major factor here. If you dont have that, you get shortages and delays. Who is paying for all that in the Star Trek Universe? Ever thought about that?
Well, that's a natural barrier. But DRM is an unnatural barrier - it's deliberately reversing the new benefits technology has brought us for the sake of an old business model. It's not like running out of energy to make free food, it's like deciding apple farmers' income is more important than free food for everyone.

Before copyright existed, and before DRM, authors wrote books. Musicians wrote music, and artists created art. Suggesting that these things would cease without copyright and DRM is disingenuous. Business models made need to change, certainly. But to draw out the old chestnut, creating artificial barriers to hold back the march of progress is like creating laws to protect the buggy-whip manufacturers at the turn of the century. Sure, having automobiles changed many things for our society, some for the worse, but trying to hold back that progress is misguided and doomed to failure. Putting DRM on ebooks so that they act exactly like paper books is like putting speed limiters and hay-consumers on cars, so that they act exactly like horses.

Whole industries were wiped out when the world made that transition, and I'm sure it was difficult for those who had to change their way of doing things, but humanity as a whole is better off for it.
bingle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2006, 11:21 PM   #14
bingle
Addict
bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.bingle has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
Posts: 273
Karma: 499
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Francisco
Device: Sony Reader
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommanderROR
Any DRM that makes ebooks more restrictive that paper books is bad.
But why are you willing to settle for that? I would say that any DRM that makes ebooks more restrictive than *ebooks could be* is bad. This technology has so much promise, why do we need to clip its wings? Bookstores might go out of business, and authors might make less money - but if we invented a cure for cancer, drug companies might go out of business and doctors make less money. Significant progress is always going to disrupt the economic landscape, but will probably lead to greater wealth overall.

We have done an amazing thing - we have eliminated shortage! Of course, it's shortage of information, not of food, medicine, or clean water, but it's still an accomplishment to be celebrated, not something that should be reversed as soon as possible.
bingle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2006, 02:44 AM   #15
NatCh
Gizmologist
NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NatCh's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,605
Karma: 926222
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN
Device: Nook STGR
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingle
...and authors might make less money....
I know a bit about the publishing industry -- generally speaking, authors really don't make that much money to begin with, the publishers do. If the authors made less than the already small amount they make now, they wouldn't be able to spend their time writing, they'd have to spend it doing something that makes money so that they can get that not-free food you mention.

If it helps, think of the p-book mimicking e-book as a ... transitional stage, rather like a larva, that would allow all concerned to discover a new equilibrium, rather like mp3's are doing. Revolution is great so long as the battles aren't fought in your corn field. I'm thinking it's far better to have a more gradual shift than a great upheaval that causes huge destruction before it allows benefit to grow from the rubble.

Just my thoughts....
NatCh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What ebook readers don't do Elfwreck General Discussions 18 09-08-2010 01:47 PM
How many different ebook readers have you used? ficbot General Discussions 41 03-29-2010 02:51 PM
Hi. I am New and I need help with ebook readers! lauranchad03 Introduce Yourself 11 03-15-2010 12:54 PM
Hi eBook Readers AdulteBookShop Introduce Yourself 1 05-02-2009 11:58 AM
Ebook readers in the UK? madmandegge Which one should I buy? 30 08-26-2008 01:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:13 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.