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Old 12-09-2009, 11:37 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom View Post
Only problem is, the major booksellers got into a price war, so no one made any money.
The publishers make theirs regardless of what the stores sell it for. But when the stores are determined to sell it at a price that they don't like, the only option they have is to avoid giving that store access to their wares.

The music industry was outraged at the money that Apple made off of the iPod because they felt that their own product was devalued to sell the iPod--which they didn't make anything from.

I suspect the publishers see the e-readers the same way.

One thing I'm sure of: This is a A or B move. One or two years from now we'll realize that it either it stemmed the tide of e-reader sales when people found that they couldn't get the new King/Palin/Crichton novel --- or the outrage forced the publishers to go back on their plans.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:39 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
and I think it appropriate to write/email/call them and let them know!

Maybe we should put together a MR "Statement" of disapproval.
I don't buy many new hardcovers, but I'd sign this.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:26 AM   #63
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If *all* publishers agreed to this, they might have a chance to keep their current pricing schedule.
Well, it won't happen in the UK, even if only the majors did it. The memory of the Net Book Agreement is too fresh, and it'd definitely get called as a cartel.
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:56 AM   #64
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Well, I may repeat what someone else said, but I'm not interested enuff in pros and cons of the issue to read all five pages created in the first 12 hours of the thread.

I'll just pop in with my own little observation, simple-minded tho it is.

I don't expect a Movie to be available on DVD as soon as its released in the theatre, I fully expect to wait a varied amount before the pbook edition of a book is released, and I have no problem with waiting for a ebook version if it means I can now count on there BEING an ebook edition.

Ebooks are not going to take over the world within the next year, but I agree the standard should be set now before they do.

Now all they have to do is get reasonable with their pricing.

However, in discussion with ereader-clueless friends, one of them made a very good point during a discussion of the ridiculously high prices (IMHO) expected for virtual books. Its not a matter of whether they should or shouldn't be cheaper -- its a matter of how much people will pay. Just like everything else.

As long people pay a high price, it won't change.

But I like the attempt to establish a standard publishing timeline.

And having gone back and read a few posts, I see Bookwerm said basically the same thing. But I disagree mildly regarding $9 ebook pricing. I might be willing to pay $9 for a first-release ebook on sale at the same time as the hardbound (if I ever actually bought one), but I ain't paying $9 for an ebook 4 months later.

Last edited by eGeezer; 12-10-2009 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Add last paragraph
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:12 AM   #65
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I have to be honest and say that I'm of two minds about this. I've been pondering the usefulness of ebooks vs pbooks recently, brought on by a desire to reread Andre Norton's Witch World series in it's entirety. Costing purchasing the collection in ebook format was prohibitively expensive and many were unavailable, purchasing used pbooks was somewhat more affordable but still outside of my budget, short term. I mentioned this to my sister and she said, "Wait a minute... ". She had 16 of the paperbacks on her shelves and loaned them to me. This gave me pause to think;

What are the odds that I will retain all the Honor Harringtion series now on my Kindle for 3 or 4 decades?
What is the probability that I would be able to loan those ebooks to my sister in 3 or 4 decades?
The internet and technology is ephemeral. Paper books are, within a lifetime, permanent other than the question of storage space.

So what does this have to do with delaying ebooks you ask. Well firstly I want publishers and authors to make money. No really, I want them to make good money so I will get good books. Secondly I had not realized it but I've always waited for the mass market paperbacks to come out. For some 50 years. So I am used to it, just because the hardbound came out a year earlier has never bothered me and there has rarely been an instance where I had to rush out to buy the hardbound book as soon as it hit the shelves. There is always plenty to read, no hurry really. Finally I want the publishing industry to keep making paper books because I don't trust technology. It isn't global now, if bad times come along it might not be available here in the future. A paper book requires nothing more than daylight.

If delaying the release of ebooks helps the authors and publishers stay in business I'm good with that. Pricing, copyright, and DRM we still need to talk about.

Last edited by NormHart; 12-10-2009 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Arrrrg, brownies!!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:21 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by bookwerm View Post
I think we just settle on a difference of opinions, then. You seem to be under the impression that ebooks are to paper books what digital music is to CDs. I'm of the mindset that the relationship is more like that of Blu-ray to standard def - there's room in the market for both to exist without one annihilating the other.

.
oh no not at all do I believe that pbooks are redundant or will be! I DO believe that the ereading population needs to be taken more seriously. we are not the after thoughts, maybe we'll get around to them later... consumers!

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Originally Posted by eGeezer View Post
And having gone back and read a few posts, I see Bookwerm said basically the same thing. But I disagree mildly regarding $9 ebook pricing. I might be willing to pay $9 for a first-release ebook on sale at the same time as the hardbound (if I ever actually bought one), but I ain't paying $9 for an ebook 4 months later.
exactly! spot on!
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:30 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by eGeezer View Post
But I disagree mildly regarding $9 ebook pricing. I might be willing to pay $9 for a first-release ebook on sale at the same time as the hardbound (if I ever actually bought one), but I ain't paying $9 for an ebook 4 months later.
I am not sure I see the difference between waiting to 4 months for a $9.00 ebook and waiting 12 months to buy a $9.00 paperback.

Perhaps it's the difference in genera, most "Best Sellers" don't interest me at all.
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:08 AM   #68
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It seems that serializing stories would be a much better solution than delaying the ebook form.
If you don't like the 9.99 tag up front, break the book into four parts at 5 dollars each for the first four months. I like the first part, buy the second, and then the third and fourth, and you have gotten your "fan tax" that you rely on. Then, when sales of the pieces dwindle, you simply sell the entire book for 9.99.

No one has to wait, the book is still cheaper than a print version, but the ealry bird pays a bit more.
On top of this, the consumer can chose to only read ten dollars of a story, and then decide that the book isn't worth the other ten.
I don't know why delay or 9.99 same day are the only options on the table.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:16 AM   #69
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I don't have a problem with this idea as long as they keep the ebook prices reasonably low. However, I think it would be better if the publishing houses tried to add value to their hardcovers instead of trying to take it away from their ebooks. For example, with the purchase of a new hardcover they could offer a code to download an ebook with additional materials: an interview with the author, deleted scenes, impressions about the editing process, even some older ebooks by the author or a similar writer. Maybe even a discount for the electronic edition when you buy the hardcover. I am sure there are several alternatives that could work better, but you get the idea: make the hardcover more attractive, even for people who tend to buy only ebooks.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:57 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drblam View Post
I don't know why delay or 9.99 same day are the only options on the table.
Especially when my average ebook buy price over the past six years has been been around $3...

And this is not on inexpensive self-published ebooks, but mostly ebooks from mainstream publishers. Careful use of special offers at Fictionwise can result in average savings of 50% and more on RRPs. My average discount on RRP this years has been about 60%.

Which just goes to show how silly current eBook RRPs and discounts to retailers are. I'd much rather see less to no discounting of the prices, combined with lower RRPs and smaller discounts to retailers.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:13 AM   #71
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As long as the eBook is released at the paperback price (Although from an advertising point of view I suspect most publishers who go this route will release the eBook at the same time as the paperback). I've got no problems with waiting until the book comes out in a format I want, I generally waited for the paperback anyway.
The same as films, they come out Cinema->DVD->pey per view->Subscription channel (Sky Movies etc)->Freeview in the UK and at no point in this do I feel a need to download the movie from the darknet. I'd be even less willing to download a book from the darknet (I've had a look at some and they are fairly badly ocr'd, with errors the odd missing page etc) if the ebook is going to be released in a few months.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:46 AM   #72
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"The right place for the e-book is after the hardcover but before the paperback," said Carolyn Reidy, CEO of Simon & Schuster, which is owned by CBS Corp. "We believe some people will be disappointed. But with new [electronic] readers coming and sales booming, we need to do this now, before the installed base of e-book reading devices gets to a size where doing it would be impossible."
You do have to wonder at the reasoning of some of these people, it seems like a more logical approach would be to put out the ebook at the same time as the hardback and simply lower its price when the paperback comes out because delays won't actually help hardback sales, but would definitely harm ebook sales.
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Old 12-10-2009, 06:10 AM   #73
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You do have to wonder at the reasoning of some of these people, it seems like a more logical approach would be to put out the ebook at the same time as the hardback and simply lower its price when the paperback comes out because delays won't actually help hardback sales, but would definitely harm ebook sales.

Agreed. Their reasoning is SO ROOTED IN THE PAST don't you think. Why should the hardback be the "premier?" that just an artifact -- even today many books are only released in paperback or trade-paperback. And there is the cost differential there has got to be more money to be made in digital distribution than paper. I guess it's that the e-market is not there yet as far as the old-timers are concerned.

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Old 12-10-2009, 06:42 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drblam View Post
It seems that serializing stories would be a much better solution than delaying the ebook form.
If you don't like the 9.99 tag up front, break the book into four parts at 5 dollars each for the first four months. I like the first part, buy the second, and then the third and fourth, and you have gotten your "fan tax" that you rely on. Then, when sales of the pieces dwindle, you simply sell the entire book for 9.99.

No one has to wait, the book is still cheaper than a print version, but the ealry bird pays a bit more.
On top of this, the consumer can chose to only read ten dollars of a story, and then decide that the book isn't worth the other ten.
I don't know why delay or 9.99 same day are the only options on the table.
that wouldn't work for me. any delay would send me to the darkside

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andanzas View Post
I don't have a problem with this idea as long as they keep the ebook prices reasonably low. However, I think it would be better if the publishing houses tried to add value to their hardcovers instead of trying to take it away from their ebooks. For example, with the purchase of a new hardcover they could offer a code to download an ebook with additional materials: an interview with the author, deleted scenes, impressions about the editing process, even some older ebooks by the author or a similar writer. Maybe even a discount for the electronic edition when you buy the hardcover. I am sure there are several alternatives that could work better, but you get the idea: make the hardcover more attractive, even for people who tend to buy only ebooks.
maybe if the ebook were available immediately. but then again, for the most part (not entirely) I am getting away from pbook acquisition


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Agreed. Their reasoning is SO ROOTED IN THE PAST don't you think. Why should the hardback be the "premier?" that just an artifact -- even today many books are only released in paperback or trade-paperback. And there is the cost differential there has got to be more money to be made in digital distribution than paper. I guess it's that the e-market is not there yet as far as the old-timers are concerned.

I think maybe you have articulated what I have been trying to say
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:29 AM   #75
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Publishers need to realise that e-books are the future and that I'm not going to pay the same for one as a paperback or hardback. I'm not using a tree. This decision angers me and it will not force me to buy the hardback, it's just ridiculous. I also don't see why I should pity the publishers and booksellers, as Buddhism says, everything is transient, you must accept change.

Last edited by seagull; 12-10-2009 at 07:33 AM.
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