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Old 12-09-2009, 07:39 AM   #46
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I've yet to find a self-published book that truly could compare with the professionally published and edited books I read. I've also become quite distrustful of user reviews - even if the book looks interesting, a lot of people like it, I've had quite a few disappointments after I started to buy ebooks. Amazon's sample service has saved me several times lately from buying books I didn't like.
Along those lines, whomever edits Stephen King, Stephanie Meyer, Dan Brown and Dean Koontz should be hung drawn and quartered. I can accept some mistakes when a writer is the sole creator of a work (a few typos here and there a sloppy sentence or two) but the ratio of terrible, downright awful writing per page on these professionally edited manuscripts should appall everyone involved.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:45 AM   #47
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I also think the "ease of creating books" (as well as the web) result in a tremendously higher noise level which makes the good stuff harder to find and thus a much greater need for reliable sources of direction.
Agreed. I'm sure there are good quality self-published books out there, but they'll be a huge pain to find. And even if there certainly are badly written and badly edited professionally published books, I'd still rather start looking at that end.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:48 AM   #48
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Along those lines, whomever edits Stephen King, Stephanie Meyer, Dan Brown and Dean Koontz should be hung drawn and quartered. I can accept some mistakes when a writer is the sole creator of a work (a few typos here and there a sloppy sentence or two) but the ratio of terrible, downright awful writing per page on these professionally edited manuscripts should appall everyone involved.
Add the new Pat Conroy to the list as well!
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:51 AM   #49
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Agreed. I'm sure there are good quality self-published books out there, but they'll be a huge pain to find. And even if there certainly are badly written and badly edited professionally published books, I'd still rather start looking at that end.
A huge pain, seriously? It's a huge pain to read a sample, that's what you call a huge pain? We're at the apex of something wonderful, a world in which the writer can interface directly with the reader. No middleman, no parasitic agents of the status-quo and you find that enhanced choice a 'huge pain'.

Frankly, you're the audience that a lot of new writers want to see gone. You'd rather have the narrow, limited range offered by the publishers than ever take a chance on anything new. Well, enjoy that narrow corridor, because it's going to get narrower and narrower every year as the creative community wake up and see that being gangbanged by an industry that doesn't care for them, is not the best of directions at all.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:58 AM   #50
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A huge pain, seriously? It's a huge pain to read a sample, that's what you call a huge pain? We're at the apex of something wonderful, a world in which the writer can interface directly with the reader. No middleman, no parasitic agents of the status-quo and you find that enhanced choice a 'huge pain'.
Given that I've actually read samples from, uh... 20-30 books or thereabout, which were praised by readers and still found all of them sub-par and the writing lacking, yes, I have little trust that self-publishing is such a great thing at the moment. Add my general dispointment with user reviews, which I don't think is such a great way of determining whether a book would be of interest to me.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:00 AM   #51
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Frankly, you're the audience that a lot of new writers want to see gone. You'd rather have the narrow, limited range offered by the publishers than ever take a chance on anything new. Well, enjoy that narrow corridor, because it's going to get narrower and narrower every year as the creative community wake up and see that being gangbanged by an industry that doesn't care for them, is not the best of directions at all.
Which basically means I would have to expact a much larger pile of low quality writing to sift through

Obviously writers would like to see readers who prefer quality gone - it would be so much easier to sell books. You can't be serious!
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:00 AM   #52
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Given that I've actually read samples from, uh... 20-30 books or thereabout, which were praised by readers and still found all of them sub-par and the writing lacking, yes, I have little trust that self-publishing is such a great thing at the moment. Add my general dispointment with user reviews, which I don't think is such a great way of determining whether a book would be of interest to me.
So your real problem is with reviews then? Because I can randomly pick 20-30 professionally published books and they will have good reviews and will aslo suck mightily. I don't read reviews. If I made my choices on the backs of other people's opinions then all my choices would be terrible.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:01 AM   #53
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So your real problem is with reviews then? Because I can randomly pick 20-30 professionally published books and they will have good reviews and will aslo suck mightily. I don't read reviews. If I made my choices on the backs of other people's opinions then all my choices would be terrible.
Did I say I based my opinion on professional reviews?!

Edit: No, my problem is with finding a decently written and edited book to read. I don't think self-publishing and user reviews improves this process.

BTW; I don't have much respect for professional reviewer who can praise such a book as The da Vinci Code in the way I remember they did. Especially not the badly translated Danish version.

Last edited by Ea; 12-09-2009 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:05 AM   #54
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Which basically means I would have to expact a much larger pile of low quality writing to sift through

Obviously writers would like to see readers who prefer quality gone - it would be so much easier to sell books. You can't be serious!
LOL Quality? Seriously, you're talking about quality in relation to the traditional publishing industry? There hasn't been a level of quality in that industry for a long, long time. It's McPublishing now. It's owned by six or seven corporations who own everything else and will give you, for a modest fee, the least offensive, the most palatable, pablum. If you weren't so hilarious I'd be worried about the future (but I see more and more readers willing to take a chance, to move away from the big corps and support real writers. So my heart doesn't sink too badly when I hear comments like yours).

Last edited by Moejoe; 12-09-2009 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:07 AM   #55
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Did I say I based my opinion on professional reviews?!

Edit: No, my problem is with finding a decently written and edited book to read. I don't think self-publishing and user reviews improves this process.

BTW; I don't have much respect for professional reviewer who can praise such a book as The da Vinci Code in the way I remember they did. Especially not the badly translated Danish version.
And did I say I thought you based your opinion on professional reviews? I think not. You did say praised by readers which is a review. Which is an opinion formed by others which influenced your decision.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:08 AM   #56
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LOL Quality? Seriously, you're talking about quality in relation to the traditional publishing industry? There hasn't been a level of quality in that industry for a long, long time. It's McPublishing now. It's owned by six or seven corporations who own everything else and will give you, for a modest fee, the least offensive, the most palatable, pablum. If you weren't so hilarious I'd be worried about the future (but I see more and more readers willing to take a chance, to move away from the big corps and support real writers. So my heart doesn't sink too badly when I heard comments like yours).
Perhaps there is a difference in that I am used to books published in a tiny market compared to the English language books. What I've grown up with has probably been the cream. Could you also please be a bit more courteous in your remarks?
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:08 AM   #57
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And did I say I thought you based your opinion on professional reviews? I think not. You did say praised by readers which is a review. Which is an opinion formed by others which influenced your decision.
Yes, that was clearly what you said.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:10 AM   #58
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Along those lines, whomever edits Stephen King, Stephanie Meyer, Dan Brown and Dean Koontz should be hung drawn and quartered. I can accept some mistakes when a writer is the sole creator of a work (a few typos here and there a sloppy sentence or two) but the ratio of terrible, downright awful writing per page on these professionally edited manuscripts should appall everyone involved.
To be fair, such big names tend to have protection from editors.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:13 AM   #59
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Perhaps there is a difference in that I am used to books published in a tiny market compared to the English language books. What I've grown up with has probably been the cream. Could you also please be a bit more courteous in your remarks?
You take swipes at self-pubs, you call it a pain to find our work and then describe that work as usually low quality and you expect courtesty in return? Sorry, not going to happen. I'm one of those 'low-quality, pain to even bother with' writers. What you say is an insult to me and all those others who are publishing indie. Do you expect us to stay silent because you're a potential audience? Do you expect us to just sit here why you tear our endeavours apart. It's a new dawn. We're not the invisible children of the publishing industry any longer. Writers are now seen and heard.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:14 AM   #60
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Yes, that was clearly what you said.
No, it was not.

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So your real problem is with reviews then? Because I can randomly pick 20-30 professionally published books and they will have good reviews and will aslo suck mightily. I don't read reviews. If I made my choices on the backs of other people's opinions then all my choices would be terrible.
In not one sentence did I use the words 'professional reviews'.
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