Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-06-2014, 11:38 AM   #391
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,562
Karma: 61902031
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Sir Roger Penrose, Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, is most assuredly not in that category. He's one of the foremost living mathematical physicists.
As I said above. Knowing something about math doesn't mean he knows anything about cognitive science. He's absolutely a woo-master in that category and needs to shut up.

You want an astrophysicist performing your appendectomy?

Last edited by kennyc; 03-06-2014 at 11:41 AM.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2014, 12:29 PM   #392
FlorenceArt
High Priestess
FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
FlorenceArt's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,584
Karma: 2339999
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreuil sous bois, France
Device: iPad Air, iPhone 6 Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
As I said above. Knowing something about math doesn't mean he knows anything about cognitive science. He's absolutely a woo-master in that category and needs to shut up.

You want an astrophysicist performing your appendectomy?
I think that Lanza is in a similar situation, as he is apparently a brilliant biologist, but from the little I have read he doesn't seem to have a clear grasp of physics (not that I have any by the way).

The Nirmukta.com article seems very interesting but I'll have to wait until I'm home from work to read it.
FlorenceArt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2014, 12:47 AM   #393
Ninjalawyer
Guru
Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ninjalawyer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ninjalawyer's Avatar
 
Posts: 819
Karma: 18464912
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Canada
Device: Kobo Touch, Nexus 7 (2013)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlorenceArt View Post
I think that Lanza is in a similar situation, as he is apparently a brilliant biologist, but from the little I have read he doesn't seem to have a clear grasp of physics (not that I have any by the way).

The Nirmukta.com article seems very interesting but I'll have to wait until I'm home from work to read it.
Lanza gets it so wrong though, that I can't believe for a second that it's just that he doesn't have a grasp on physics.

Recently on NPR's program OnPoint, they had the author of the book Grain Brain, a neurologist I believe, who likened gluten to a terrorist. He seemed very polished, but everything he said about gluten was speculation (although delivered as fact), or misstated facts refuted by scientists. Everything he had to say seemed like it was precision engineered to play into people's health fears, while also supporting the anti-gluten diet fad that he helped create. Essentially, the guy was a snake oil salesman.

I get the sense that Lanza is making the same sort of sales pitch. It's always a bad idea to assume ill intent when incompetence will do, but Lanza just seems like he should be too informed (especially after years of skeptics pointing out the flaws in his arguments) to be honestly claiming biocentrism is a real thing.
Ninjalawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2014, 04:52 AM   #394
FlorenceArt
High Priestess
FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.FlorenceArt ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
FlorenceArt's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,584
Karma: 2339999
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreuil sous bois, France
Device: iPad Air, iPhone 6 Plus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer View Post
Lanza gets it so wrong though, that I can't believe for a second that it's just that he doesn't have a grasp on physics.

Recently on NPR's program OnPoint, they had the author of the book Grain Brain, a neurologist I believe, who likened gluten to a terrorist. He seemed very polished, but everything he said about gluten was speculation (although delivered as fact), or misstated facts refuted by scientists. Everything he had to say seemed like it was precision engineered to play into people's health fears, while also supporting the anti-gluten diet fad that he helped create. Essentially, the guy was a snake oil salesman.

I get the sense that Lanza is making the same sort of sales pitch. It's always a bad idea to assume ill intent when incompetence will do, but Lanza just seems like he should be too informed (especially after years of skeptics pointing out the flaws in his arguments) to be honestly claiming biocentrism is a real thing.
I guess it's hard to recognize your mistakes, especially if they helped make you a minor celebrity. This kind of "theory" is highly likely to get a higher share of media attention than it deserves.

Also, I just wanted to mention that the nirmukta link Kenny posted is a great article, worth reading IMO whether or not you're interested in Lanza's theory.
http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/14/bioce...ious-universe/
FlorenceArt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 02:56 PM   #395
bfisher
Guru
bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.bfisher ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 735
Karma: 3036098
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 45N 75W
Device: Sony PRS-T3, Galaxy (Aldiko, Kobo app)
I just finished "The Monkey's Voyage: How Improbable Journeys Shaped the History of Life" by Alan de Queiroz. It's about the biogeographical concepts of vicariance and dispersalism as competitive theories for the spatial distribution of life on earth. Per the title, de Queiroz is a dispersalist. The writing style is quite readable, and he describes some of the personalities involved. I have no biology background whatsoever, and I never felt lost reading this. A good read.
bfisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 07:57 PM   #396
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Precisely - it's simply a statement of the "anthropic principle", which basically says that if the universe were significantly different to the way it is, we wouldn't be here to observe it.
Yes, but why is the universe so perfectly balanced for life? It's not only perfectly tuned for humans, but for all carbon-based life. Coincidence?
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 08:11 PM   #397
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjalawyer View Post
I think the title of this thread is "science ebook recommendations", and not "pseudoscience ebook recommendations". Looks to be standard Deepak Chopra-style malarky that is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of quantum physics - that an "observer" has to be conscious, or even alive. Or maybe it's based on the all too astute observation about what people will buy when you affix the word "quantum" to it.
Lanza argues that reality is inextricably bound up with the act of observation and therefore consciousness, and that the study of consciousness has been woefully neglected by physics. I see nothing 'Deepak Chopra-style malarky' in that.

Quote:
I love that the book description on Amazon has this gem: "Robert Lanza is one of the most respected scientists in the world". Strangely, it omits the fact that Lanza is a medical doctor, and not a physicist or evolutionary biologist.
From wiki:
Quote:
Robert Paul Lanza is an American medical doctor, scientist, Chief Scientific Officer of Advanced Cell Technology and Adjunct Professor at the Institute for Regenerative Medicine, Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Throughout history non-specialists have made breakthroughs in science. Your ad hominem criticism is narrow-minded. Read the book. You might surprise me.
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 08:22 PM   #398
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlorenceArt View Post
Of course modern science doesn't explain that. Modern science has proved that animal life evolved to adapt to their environment. That includes the laws of physics. If the laws of physics were different, life would be different, but how can we say that our laws of physics are the only ones that would allow life? We can't, so the argument is worthless.
Have you looked into those "laws of physics"? Lanza is referring to constants that affect not just to our type of life, but to constants that would affect the development of complex structures. I've seen this stuff in other books, so I'm surprised not more people are open to the possibility. It's not that controversial an interpretation anymore.

I'm only about 60% of the way through, and I don't agree with everything he says. I agree with the Engadget review that he is sometimes 'lazy' which surprises me too. But he throws enough muck at conventional interpretations of modern physics for some of it to stick. I'm enjoying the book. It's a real mind-twister and makes you look at the world in a different way. I'm guessing the vast majority of the book's critiques on this thread haven't read it either.

Last edited by Rizla; 03-24-2014 at 09:26 PM.
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 08:54 PM   #399
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
On the Anthropic Principle:

Quote:
“A man in front of a firing squad of one hundred riflemen is going to be pretty surprised if every bullet misses him. Sure he could say to himself, ‘Of course they all missed; that makes perfect sense, otherwise I wouldn’t be here to wonder why they all missed.’ But anyone in his or her right mind is going to want to know how such an unlikely event occurred.”
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 09:27 PM   #400
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
As I said above. Knowing something about math doesn't mean he knows anything about cognitive science. He's absolutely a woo-master in that category and needs to shut up.

You want an astrophysicist performing your appendectomy?
Glad to see you back, Kenny, I think.
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:08 PM   #401
rkomar
Wizard
rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,748
Karma: 4368476
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
Lanza argues that reality is inextricably bound up with the act of observation and therefore consciousness, and that the study of consciousness has been woefully neglected by physics. I see nothing 'Deepak Chopra-style malarky' in that.
Stuff happens all over the universe without observation. What scientist could seriously believe that nothing gets decided until something is conscious of it? There is a general misunderstanding of what "observation" really means with respect to quantum physics.
rkomar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:30 PM   #402
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkomar View Post
What scientist could seriously believe that nothing gets decided until something is conscious of it? There is a general misunderstanding of what "observation" really means with respect to quantum physics.

Why is it not possible "that nothing gets decided until something is conscious of it."? That is exactly how the sub-atomic world works and the double-split experiment is proof of the principle manifesting at a macroscopic level.

Last edited by Rizla; 03-24-2014 at 10:37 PM.
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:35 PM   #403
kennyc
The Dank Side of the Moon
kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kennyc ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kennyc's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,562
Karma: 61902031
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Device: Kindle2; Galaxy SIII; Xoom; Kindle Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
Why is it not possible "that nothing gets decided until something is conscious of it."? That is exactly how the sub-atomic world works, and Schrodinger's cat is an example of the principle manifesting at a macroscopic level.
No it's not. You misunderstand what is really happening.
kennyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 10:39 PM   #404
Rizla
Wizard
Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rizla ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rizla's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,958
Karma: 4190031
Join Date: Nov 2010
Device: PRS-650 / Cybook Opus / Nook STR (rooted)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
No it's not. You misunderstand what is really happening.
Care to elaborate?
Rizla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2014, 11:05 PM   #405
rkomar
Wizard
rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rkomar ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,748
Karma: 4368476
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Device: PRS-505, PB 902, PRS-T1, PB 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizla View Post
Why is it not possible "that nothing gets decided until something is conscious of it."? That is exactly how the sub-atomic world works and the double-split experiment is proof of the principle manifesting at a macroscopic level.
The vast majority of subatomic interactions take place outside of experiments with detectors and conscious observers. They seem to do fine without us being present and paying attention. It seems to me that a theory that requires consciousness is just introducing unnecessary complications.
rkomar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hard Science Fiction Recommendations tmclough Reading Recommendations 237 11-25-2013 12:46 AM
Dell Streak - eBook reader recommendations please Prodromoi Android Devices 4 06-22-2010 08:54 PM
Any science (non-fiction) recommendations? djgreedo Reading Recommendations 18 05-10-2009 04:42 PM
ebook reader / netbook tablet recommendations wanted maynard Which one should I buy? 7 04-12-2009 08:48 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:33 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.