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Old 11-02-2009, 06:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giddeaon View Post
I'm not buying a Nook yet....but if the Android OS gets torn apart and rebuilt so that we can customize the device to read the formats we want....well I'll gladly drop the bucks to finally have a device that does so instead of sticking me with specific formats and purchasing options.
It doesn't even require tearing apart and rebuilding. Just applications that will run under Android.

For instance, FBReader has an experimental Java version for Google Android. FBreaderJ supports ePub, fb2, and oeb formats, but future plans involve extending it to support everything FBReader does, which adds MobiPocket, Plucker, CHM, and a few other things.

If we can get to the underlying OS at all, interesting things will be possible.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by scveteran View Post
That is illegal in the US and can land you in jail and/or a large fine. Your own use and distributing are two totally seperate things.
[SNIP]
"That is illegal..." Which is illegal? Did you mean stripping the DRM? Nobody knows yet whether it's illegal or not! The DMCA is self-contradictory on the subject, eminent legal scholars disagree on the interpretation, and no court has yet ruled. At this point there's no basis for any firm pronouncement on the legality (or illegality) of stripping DRM from legitimately acquired content for personal use only. My opinion is that removing DRM is ethically and morally OK in this case. And it seems quite clear that any DA who brings felony charges against someone for buying eBooks and stripping the DRM (and never distributing them farther!) is more likely to get chewed out by the judge for wasting the courts time than they would be to get a conviction!

If you meant loaning out the resulting DRM-free eBook, I'd have to say that the law isn't settled yet on that one either. My opinion is that loaning an eBook is somewhat more dubious because it's too hard to do so without making unapproved copies. On the other hand, the First Sale doctrine applies to software too so there's no fundamental reason why loaning out an eBook is obviously illegal a priori... it's just that it's harder to be sure that no one wound up with an extra copy in the process. And, of course, the combination of stripping DRM and also distributing the de-DRM-d copy is clearly a violation of both copyright and the DMCA.

So if the combination of removing DRM and distributing the result -- and note that 'distributing' here goes beyond 'lending with the expectation that the book will be returned'! -- is the thing you intended to call "illegal," I suppose I'd have to agree with that.

Xenophon
(who is NOT a lawyer, but has been moderately educated on the subjects of copyright, DRM, and U.S. law)
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scveteran View Post
That is illegal in the US and can land you in jail and/or a large fine. Your own use and distributing are two totally seperate things.

who's going to tell? Once its bought and downloaded, who's to know?



You might not like that feature, but some of us would love it. Especially those of us who have mobility and dexterty issues.
If your issues don't allow you to page thru a paper book, I doubt the dexterity needed to constantly type on a tiny keyboard will be a better experience.

I think its just another way for BN to not stock paper books. It will be so easy to say......."well, we don't have that book it stock, but you can sure browse thru it on your device!", much like they love to tell you they don't have the book in stock but will be happy to order it for you.

If I want to do that, I'll stick to browsing thru my laptop, thank you.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenophon View Post
"That is illegal..." Which is illegal? Did you mean stripping the DRM? Nobody knows yet whether it's illegal or not! The DMCA is self-contradictory on the subject, eminent legal scholars disagree on the interpretation, and no court has yet ruled. At this point there's no basis for any firm pronouncement on the legality (or illegality) of stripping DRM from legitimately acquired content for personal use only. My opinion is that removing DRM is ethically and morally OK in this case. And it seems quite clear that any DA who brings felony charges against someone for buying eBooks and stripping the DRM (and never distributing them farther!) is more likely to get chewed out by the judge for wasting the courts time than they would be to get a conviction!

If you meant loaning out the resulting DRM-free eBook, I'd have to say that the law isn't settled yet on that one either. My opinion is that loaning an eBook is somewhat more dubious because it's too hard to do so without making unapproved copies. On the other hand, the First Sale doctrine applies to software too so there's no fundamental reason why loaning out an eBook is obviously illegal a priori... it's just that it's harder to be sure that no one wound up with an extra copy in the process. And, of course, the combination of stripping DRM and also distributing the de-DRM-d copy is clearly a violation of both copyright and the DMCA.

So if the combination of removing DRM and distributing the result -- and note that 'distributing' here goes beyond 'lending with the expectation that the book will be returned'! -- is the thing you intended to call "illegal," I suppose I'd have to agree with that.

Xenophon
(who is NOT a lawyer, but has been moderately educated on the subjects of copyright, DRM, and U.S. law)


"So if the combination of removing DRM and distributing the result -- and note that 'distributing' here goes beyond 'lending with the expectation that the book will be returned'! -- is the thing you intended to call "illegal," I suppose I'd have to agree with that." Is exactly what I am refering to.
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
If your issues don't allow you to page thru a paper book, I doubt the dexterity needed to constantly type on a tiny keyboard will be a better experience.

I think its just another way for BN to not stock paper books. It will be so easy to say......."well, we don't have that book it stock, but you can sure browse thru it on your device!", much like they love to tell you they don't have the book in stock but will be happy to order it for you.

If I want to do that, I'll stick to browsing thru my laptop, thank you.
Actually, it is easier for me to handle a keyboard than flip through a book. Also it is much, repeat MUCH, easier for me to handle that keyboard than to physically reach up or down for some books. They are not all in the height range that I can comfortably reach from my wheelchair.
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Old 11-03-2009, 06:51 AM   #21
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Everyone's been considering Android a plus for the purpose of hackability, but there's another reason. Assuming B&N chooses to be responsive to customer pressure for things like adding a browser, they can do it in minimal time. I can easily see them adding the non-GPS-enabled version of Google Maps as a way of locating the nearest B&N store. I can see them adding "What I'm Reading Now" Facebook updates.

That can all be done quickly, leveraging existing, well-tested code.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
I think its just another way for BN to not stock paper books. It will be so easy to say......."well, we don't have that book it stock, but you can sure browse thru it on your device!", much like they love to tell you they don't have the book in stock but will be happy to order it for you.
Although I think you are correct, I do want to give kudos to my local B&N. I subscribe to the New York Review of Books, among other magazines with book reviews and advertisements, and often find a few books that seem interesting to me but are not on anyone's bestseller list (well, maybe on that bestseller list that only lists books whose titles begin with X and whose author's last name begins Tu ). And every couple of weeks, I go to my local B&N and ask them to order the books for me.

I probably purchase 90% of what I order this way, but there is never any hassle about placing the order and declining the book once I get a look at it. In addition, the customer service folk already know my preferences (such as no security sticker) and always make sure to note them on my orders. In addition, I always get the quoted price (or a new lower price) at time of order, even if the price rises between time of order and receipt (which is what happened with Abraham Lincoln: A Life by Michael Burlingame. B&N honored the original preorder price of $55 even though by the time the book shipped, nearly 4 months later, the discounted price had risen to near $100 [the book was a 2-volume set with a MSRP of $125]).

There are things I dislike about how B&N is handling ebooks and the nook, but at least my local B&N does provide me with good customer service and does cater to my ordering whims with a smile.

Will this change with the advent of the nook? I wouldn't think so as regards pbooks. But then again, B&N has shown it isn't the savviest of marketers and could make yet another mistake in customer relations.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:38 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post

There are things I dislike about how B&N is handling ebooks and the nook, but at least my local B&N does provide me with good customer service and does cater to my ordering whims with a smile.

.

I will say, I have never been given bad customer service at BN. I've always found the customer service kiosk and checkout people very nice and helpful.

I think that's because we're dealing with people that truly love books and the reading experience.

My tastes are not as lofty as yours, R, so when I go and there, and look for a particular book by Stephen King, or Jennifer Chiaverini, or any well known author, I expect to find it on the shelves.

Perhaps if they didn't have quite so many copies of Dan Brown's, latest, they might have the budget......
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertgrandma View Post
Perhaps if they didn't have quite so many copies of Dan Brown's, latest, they might have the budget......
Stocking lots of Dan Brown won't be a factor. Publishing has historically worked on a 100% returns policy, so any unsold books may be returned for credit. What this normally means is that hardcovers are shipped back, but paperbacks simply have the covers stripped off and returned, and the book itself is supposed to become landfill.

100% returns was widely understood to be a killer for publishers - it removed all risk for the retailer, who was ordinarily expected to understand their market and make good guesses about what would sell when they ordered - but while everyone knew it as a problem, no one wanted to be the first to change the terms offered to retailers.

We are finally starting to see experimentation here, with publishers offering higher discounts to retailers in exchange for not being able to return all unsold copies for credit.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:42 PM   #25
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My tastes are not as lofty as yours, R, so when I go and there, and look for a particular book by Stephen King, or Jennifer Chiaverini, or any well known author, I expect to find it on the shelves.
While I appreciate the elevation (it is so much fun to look down on humankind ), I wouldn't call my tastes "lofty"; perhaps esoteric or odd, but not lofty.

I find that I am interested in many different areas that are semi-mainstream, that is, they are mainstream but whereas someone might be satisfied with a broad overview of the Civil War, I like to supplement that broad view with narrowly focused revelations.

I also like to read opposing viewpoints. For example, I read both Hannah Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil and David Cesarani's Becoming Eichmann.

I also like to get other perspectives. As most Americans of my generation, I was taught history from a eurocentric perspective. Muslim culture was rarely mentioned, except for Moorish Spain, and that probably took up 15 minutes of my schooling. Consequently, I buy books like Tamim Ansary's Destiny Disrupted: A History of the World Through Islamic Eyes, Stewart Gordon's When Asia was the World, Henry Aubin's The Rescue of Jerusalem: The Alliance of Hebrews and Africans in 701 BC, and Miriam Bodian's Dying in the Law of Moses: Crypto-Jewish Martyrdom in the Iberian World and Jonathan Decter's Iberian Jewish Literature: Between al-Andalus and Christian Europe.

Most Americans of my generation read the Tennyson poem Charge of the Light Brigade (I think that's the correct title) in school. It is the kind of poem that most kids like. But I always wondered what the true story was and so I bought Terry Brighton's Hell Riders: The True Story of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

Although a few of these books were available on the shelf at my local B&N and I came across them through browsing, most I discovered through ads, footnotes and bibliographies in other books, and in places like the New York Review of Books. B&N has made it easy for me to indulge my curiosity by special ordering the books and letting me peruse them wiothout obligation.

Books are my big weakness. I could have retired already if I had saved the money I have spent at my local B&N (or at least been closer to retirement).
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Old 12-08-2009, 03:44 PM   #26
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I got the original Kindle and the Kindle 2. I ran out and purchased an extra battery....ummm...because that's what you're supposed to do. Well, I gave the K1 to my daughter the day I got my K2. Along with the 'extra' battery and the advice that should she ever need it, here it is.
bleh
She's never used it. On the 3 Kindles that I have had (K1, K2, DX-returned) I have neither run out of disk space, nor run out of battery while using it. In fact, looking at my ebook library of about 500 books, most are from .8 to 1.2 MB. Why do people list either (battery/SD card) as selling points?
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:29 PM   #27
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxh11215 View Post
On the 3 Kindles that I have had (K1, K2, DX-returned) I have neither run out of disk space, nor run out of battery while using it. In fact, looking at my ebook library of about 500 books, most are from .8 to 1.2 MB. Why do people list either (battery/SD card) as selling points?
For SD cards, some of us have larger libraries. I use a Palm OS PDA for ebook reading. I have about 3,860 volumes in several formats spread over two 2GB SD cards, occupying about 1.8GB of total space.

I'm saved by the fact that most (about 3,480) are in Plucker format (an offline HTML viewer for Palm OS), and Plucker can create files using gzip compatible compression, which provides about 70% reduction in size, so the average size of a Plucker book is about 300KB.. Mobipocket, by comparison, uses a form of compression that provides about 40% reduction. Were everything in the larger Mobi format, I'd have to upgrade to larger SD cards

Yes, I'm a pack rat. I like having my entire ebook library available, which means SD card storage.
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Old 12-08-2009, 04:36 PM   #29
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I got the original Kindle and the Kindle 2. I ran out and purchased an extra battery....ummm...because that's what you're supposed to do. Well, I gave the K1 to my daughter the day I got my K2. Along with the 'extra' battery and the advice that should she ever need it, here it is.
bleh
She's never used it. On the 3 Kindles that I have had (K1, K2, DX-returned) I have neither run out of disk space, nor run out of battery while using it. In fact, looking at my ebook library of about 500 books, most are from .8 to 1.2 MB. Why do people list either (battery/SD card) as selling points?
Well, because eventually that battery will die. Most likely, not within the warranty period.

When it does, the K1 battery will cost me $19.99 to replace.

Your k2 battery will cost you $59.95 plus shipping to replace. And you have to send it in......for an undetermined period of time.

The SD card is a bugger, because they gave it to us with the K1, and not with the K2. I have over 900 books now.....your may be small, mine aren't. Plus others want to store manga and music, which takes way more room than books.

It boils down to the fact that Amazon decided how much room we needed, and how to change the battery.
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Old 12-08-2009, 11:49 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=desertgrandma;687157]
The SD card is a bugger, because they gave it to us with the K1, and not with the K2. I have over 900 books now.....your may be small, mine aren't. Plus others want to store manga and music, which takes way more room than books.



In addition, many of us read PDF documents of very large books (computer programing, etc). Although 6" readers are not ideal for this, if you choose to do this the files can be very large.
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