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Old 10-13-2009, 10:31 AM   #1
DMcCunney
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UK publishers assured over territoriality following Kindle launch

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/99...le-launch.html
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:46 AM   #2
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Territoriality -- assurred? nonononononononononononononono!
We're going backwards here. What's next, gang colors for each publishing house?

"works appropriate for my country"?? - Thanks dad - I couldn't decide without you.

Look folks, I have CASH - I want to BUY your books legally - what is so difficult about this concept?

End of rant (for now).
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:48 AM   #3
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Ugh. Idiots. There are lots of good books that aren't available in the US, that are in the UK, even if the UK publisher is in the US. It isn't illegal to sell to me, so WHY NOT SELL TO ME?
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:52 AM   #4
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Publishers Association chief executive Simon Juden said: “Publishers worked very closely with Amazon.com on this issue. They have made sure consumers will buy works appropriate to the country they are in.”
Quote:
Another publisher not included said: “[The launch] was just as big a surprise to us as it was to you, in terms of timing. Now it’s a matter of tying up territorial issues – internal ones, like making sure we have UK pricing and UK ISBNs – and making sure their systems are improving in that area."
In other words make sure folks in the UK pay the higher prices UK publishers charge.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:49 AM   #5
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Interestingly, the Russian ebook shop Litres takes the opposite point of view:
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Originally Posted by GribUser
De jure we're operating on the territory of Russian Federation, the delivery abroad is carried out by the customer. At least, that's our position and so far we don't have any alternative ideas. I personally think it can't be otherwise with the digital goods. One thing is selling goods with delivery to Israel, and another if everyone starts claiming they're from Israel - how can we verify that? What are we going to tell the tax authorities?
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:18 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
In other words make sure folks in the UK pay the higher prices UK publishers charge.
As the UK is a much smaller market, UK publishers pretty much have to charge higher prices.

But it's not just about charging higher prices. Various publishers have exclusive rights to titles in their area. The intent is that if you buy the title, you buy from them, and they get the revenue for the sale.

The publishers are not drawing a distinction between paper and electronic editions in terms of territorial rights unless the contract does.

In the case of the higher charging UK publisher, if I'm that publisher, I may not be able to match the pricing offered by, say, a US entity, and see a real chance of going out of business if I can't enforce territorial rights.

It will be interesting to see where this goes. I can't think of a simple solution.

(Note to MR posters in other threads advocating revenue sharing deals: that's simple to say, buit not to implement.)
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Last edited by DMcCunney; 10-13-2009 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
As the UK is a much smaller market, UK publishers pretty much have to charge higher prices.

But it's not just about charging higher prices. Various publishers have exclusive rights to titles in their area. The intent is that if you buy the title, you buy from them, and they get the revenue for the sale.

The publishers are not drawing a distinction between paper and electronic editions in terms of territorial rights unless the contract does.

In the case of the higher charging UK publisher, if I'm that publisher, I may not be able to match the pricing offered by, say, a US entity, and see a real chance of going out of business if I can't enforce territorial rights.

It will be interesting to see whare this goes. I can't think of a simple solution.

(Note to MR posters in other threads advocating revenue sharing deals: that's simple to say, buit not to implement.)
Yep, I know all that. I was just summing up the quotes.
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poohbear_nc View Post
Territoriality -- assurred? nonononononononononononononono!
We're going backwards here. What's next, gang colors for each publishing house?
No. But exclusive rights have value, and are jealously guarded.

Quote:
"works appropriate for my country"?? - Thanks dad - I couldn't decide without you.

Look folks, I have CASH - I want to BUY your books legally - what is so difficult about this concept?

End of rant (for now).
Nothing difficult about the concept, save for the "buy legally".

Different publishers are active in different areas. When an author writes a book, there will be an assortment of associated rights to it. Depending upon the book and the deal negotiated by the author or author's agent, there may be separate domestic hardcover and paperback contracts, plus domestic ebooks rights. Then there may be foreign sales to publishers in other countries, possibly including translations, foreign ebook rights, and things like options for film. (I think I know writers who have made more money from option fees from producers interested in possibly making a film of the story than they have from selling the actual books...)

All of these outfits expect to get exclusive rights for the market they serve, and be the only one allowed to offer it to their market. That exclusivity for them is what gives the property value and makes them negotiate to get the rights.

So the question becomes "Who has the legal right to sell it to you?", as specified by the contract for the book.

It's possible no one does. It's more likely depending on where you are that you could get it cheaper from a foreign supplier. Your local supplier has an interest called "Wanting to stay in business" in preventing that...
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Old 10-13-2009, 12:41 PM   #9
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Hmmmm .....

Parrot -- check
Eye Patch -- check
Cutlass -- check
Jolly Roger Flag -- check
Arrrhh! For Dummies -- check
Google -- check

Reading Your Book -- priceless (in any territory)

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Old 10-13-2009, 12:49 PM   #10
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I'm not so sure that britain is a smaller market. I read somewhere (not that long ago) that britain and germany combined, buy more books than the USA and thats with the former still having roughly half the population.
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Old 10-13-2009, 01:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
As the UK is a much smaller market, UK publishers pretty much have to charge higher prices.
The smaller the market, the higher the price. That's quite normal. Unfortunately it's both English speaking markets, and an englishman and an american can easily read "each others" books, even if spelling standards differ slightly. It creates a quite different situation than in comparison others-

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Originally Posted by cheese bogart View Post
I'm not so sure that britain is a smaller market. I read somewhere (not that long ago) that britain and germany combined, buy more books than the USA and thats with the former still having roughly half the population.
I highly doubt that most of all those Germans buy English language titles.
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #12
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Hmmmm .....

Parrot -- check
Eye Patch -- check
Cutlass -- check
Jolly Roger Flag -- check
Arrrhh! For Dummies -- check
Google -- check

Reading Your Book -- priceless (in any territory)


This!! reading your book -- priceless (in any territory)

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Old 10-13-2009, 11:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DMcCunney View Post
In the case of the higher charging UK publisher, if I'm that publisher, I may not be able to match the pricing offered by, say, a US entity, and see a real chance of going out of business if I can't enforce territorial rights.
Too bad for you. Seriously.

I'm at a complete loss as to why authors or readers should be held to ransom by the inefficiencies of the publishing status-quo.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:39 AM   #14
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Forgetting all of the territorial rights and stuff for a second and lets assume they will stand.

I am personally very unhappy that I am not allowed to buy a book(Paper) from amazon.com and have it shipped to me in the UK!

Oh wait I am...

But I cant buy an Ebook and have it NOT shipped to me.

In fact a few years ago I ordered some books from the US via Waterstones(Uk book store) and that wasnt an issue it seems.

If I didnt know how to buy books from the US via Proxies and gift certificates etc then I would be very annoyed!

How in any sane rational world can it be easier and more 'legal' to go online buy a paperbook from the US and have it delivered than it is to order the same book as an Ebook.
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:41 AM   #15
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I am hurt as much by regional restrictions as the next guy, but remember, books were always cheaper in the US. Only with pbooks you paid more for shipping and handling than the price difference was. And a big part of the price difference is VAT. It is time for Europeans to petition your governments for a VAT free internet zone, like in the US.
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