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Old 10-08-2009, 03:56 PM   #76
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There is also a racial bias (it's not available in black).
hahaha This made my day
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:38 PM   #77
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::: eyeroll :::

I'll take paranoid, knee-jerk anti-Americanism for $200, Alex.
Sorry, whitearrow. The only category we have left is "dimwitted self-congratulatory western xenophobia".

- Ahi
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #78
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Sorry, whitearrow. The only category we have left is "dimwitted self-congratulatory western xenophobia".

- Ahi
What's that you say? There are xenophobes out there who actually *fear* westerns??? For shame! Let them all watch re-runs of Bonanza! (G, D & R)

Derek
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:50 PM   #79
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The only category we have left is "dimwitted self-congratulatory western xenophobia".
I'm south of you, not west
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:06 PM   #80
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I'm just wondering whether Amazon is actually capable of making enough devices to satisfy an open global market. I suspect not because the screens are made by specialist manufacturers.
If they can't offer devices to the entire planet then they may well be marketing the International Kindle in those states where Amazon has a fair number of sales, and has sorted out the international copyrights.
I'm guessing that the international Kindle won't be available in Cuba either.
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:40 PM   #81
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Lucky for us capitalists don't care about religion or politics as long as there is a profit in it. There is probably additionally complex licensing in those areas.

They sell it in Australia and they are very multi-cultural, plenty of muslims/hindus/christians there.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:21 PM   #82
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Try and keep your ignorant prejudices out of this thread.

---

luqmaninbmore and lev, does the data present in this article make the anti-Muslim bias seem less acute?

- Ahi
Epic cause and effect comprehension fail.


The very thread title inserted ignorant (and unsupportable) biases into the conversation. Not those responding to the attack.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:23 PM   #83
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I've learned a few things from this thread, i.e. criticizing Amazon is equivalent to criticizing America. Maybe we could modify the old saying, "What's good for Amazon is good for the USA."
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:44 PM   #84
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Epic cause and effect comprehension fail.


The very thread title inserted ignorant (and unsupportable) biases into the conversation. Not those responding to the attack.
I don't agree with you at all. yes the original poster may have judged too quickly and the title of the post could have been set better rather than state Anti-Muslim bias etc. but in all fairness he did make a point that none of the major muslim countries except Bosnia and Albania (within Europe) have kindle launched.
and as to ahi's response to the poster, have a close look at his comments and you will see that he does have a point.
-they hate Americans, they attacked America etc...
muslims do not equal terrorists.
and then further on comments about "he knows what he is" etc.

now about the topic, have a look at it yourself and decide whether there is some common element in it.

here's something I got from the net. now kindle is available in more that 100 countries. However,

Kindle is currently not available in the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Canada, Chad, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Gambia, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Democratic People’s Republic Of Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, New Zealand, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestinian Territories, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen.

Apart from the countries in bold all the rest are countries with Major muslim populations. Now there are some exceptions like Canada, New Zealand, Korea, Singapore and Thailand. for whatever reasons they were not included. but nothing common within this group that can be pointed out.
As for China and Cuba we may be able to come up with some reasons like censorship or in Cubas case trade restrictions ( I believe it is still implemented by US government but not sure if that has changed in the last few years. )

And if you look at all the rest of the countries they all have one common point- being a muslim majority country.

Now as to suggestions that it may be due to technical reasons - it just simply does not stand where UAE, Turkey, SA, Malaysia have more than better coverage than some other countries like Mongolia, Armenia, Georgia, Central African countries etc.

As for Kindle doesnt have the capability to launch in all countries at once - well it is pretty weird that they decided for the time being not to launch in mostly muslim countries.

As for publishing rights, I doubt that muslim countries have such a different legal policy to the rest of the world. meaning that if Amazon is able to bridge and make it work in such disparate countries as Myanmar, Tanzania, Bhutan, France etc. I am sure they could have could have done it with some of those countries. unless all muslim countries publishing rights are so very different from the rest of the world.

Now, I do not propose that Amazon is doing it because they are biased or don't want to operate in those countries. Just that they may have censorship problems or other issues that they would prefer to wait and formulate policies before entering these markets.
I also do not blame Amazon as the responsible party, as it just doesn't make sense for a corporation to willingly pass on a huge opportunity to make profit. More likely it is the condition or the government policy of those countries that made them to take such action. and I do believe Amazon will eventually launch in those countries as they sort these issues out.

But at this time, there seems to be a common element of most of those countries being muslim. and I do believe that makes more sense than the idea somehow they just could not launch in those countries due to publishing rights or infrastructure etc. while they can in many other countries.

Last edited by lev; 10-09-2009 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:16 AM   #85
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Before you jump to any conclusions, you need two separate lists:

1.)Countries with AT&T roaming agreements with charges low enough that they could actually be covered by 2 USD per book.

2.)Countries in which censorship would not preclude most of the content.

Besides your list is not accurate. China (I think) is included among the "Kindle countries" and only has a tiny Muslim minority -- even though they have been in the news a lot lately. The country with the second biggest muslim population in the world, India, is included. Thailand, actually has a sizeable Muslim minority.

And I think you must also take cultural sensitivities into account. A lot of the content offered on Amazon will not be welcomed by devout Muslims. So it could simply be a business decision and Amazon is preparing for a special muslim website? Don't you think that Amazon would actually be strongly criticized in many muslim countries if they offered to deliver any objectionable content in this way?

Last edited by HansTWN; 10-09-2009 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:22 AM   #86
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I would like to add that I appreciate Amazon having put Arabic letters on the back plate and box for the Kindle 1 (does the Kindle 2 have a similar design?). I take my kindle to the local Islamic seminary where I take part time classes and use it for note taking. The keyboard's not half bad; too bad the device can't display Arabic in a convenient manner.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:44 AM   #87
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Before you jump to any conclusions, you need two separate lists:

1.)Countries with AT&T roaming agreements with charges low enough that they could actually be covered by 2 USD per book.

2.)Countries in which censorship would not preclude most of the content.

Besides your list is not accurate. China (I think) is included among the "Kindle countries" and only has a tiny Muslim minority -- even though they have been in the news a lot lately. The country with the second biggest muslim population in the world, India, is included. Thailand, actually has a sizeable Muslim minority.

And I think you must also take cultural sensitivities into account. A lot of the content offered on Amazon will not be welcomed by devout Muslims. So it could simply be a business decision and Amazon is preparing for a special muslim website? Don't you think that Amazon would actually be strongly criticized in many muslim countries if they offered to deliver any objectionable content in this way?
China is not included in kindle countries. and in my point I made an axception that it is most likely due to chinese government censorship and control. not because of muslims.
and I do agree with you on the cultural sensitivity. That is my point all along. that either because of censorship or because of cultural sensitivity that so far amazon has withheld from entering those markets. I do believe that they will eventually enter those markets whether they launch a separate site or not.

However, this also means that their policy is influenced by a common element- Islam.

and again I do not blame amazon for anti-muslim sentiment. just that Islam may have indeed played a major part in not launching kindle for the time being.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:58 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by lev View Post
Kindle is currently not available in the following countries: Afghanistan, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei Darussalam, Burkina Faso, Canada, Chad, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Gambia, Guinea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Democratic People’s Republic Of Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, New Zealand, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestinian Territories, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen.
Actually, every single one of those countries, *including Canada*, have censorship/freedom of speech restrictions that impact books. Except for the bold ones, all have literacy issues. None, except for the bold countries, rank very highly on personal freedom.
Lots of ways to slice and dice the list that are religion independent; doesn't make any of them valid, though.
It is worth remembering that correlation does not imply causation.
Conspiracy theorists fall prey to that fallacy all the time; it is sinply a sign or muddled thinking as Doc Smith would say.

That said, the reality is that on a planet with 240+ governments and 240+ sets of laws, telecom systems, etc, its a miracle Amazon actually was able to launch in 100 countries. Realistically, they could've cherry picked a dozen countries and made as much money, without even half the grief and insults that launching in 100 will bring them.

The glass ain't half empty, its half full.

Last edited by fjtorres; 10-09-2009 at 01:21 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:13 AM   #89
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Actually, every single one of those countries, *including Canada*, have censorship/freedom of speech restrictions that impact books. Except for the bold ones, all have literacy issues. None, except for the bold countries, rank very highly on personal freedom.
Lots of ways to slice and dice the list that are religion independent.

That said, the reality is that on a planet with 240+ governments and sets of laws, telecom systems, etc, its a miracle Amazon actually was able to launch in 100 countries.

The glass ain't half empty, its half full.
I definitely agree that for whatever reason they did not, I have to take my hat off for the fact they actually did launch in more than 100 countries in one go. without any rumor!!

besides, it really doesn't effect me in any way that they are not available in those countries. As long as they have it Japan, Guam and Australia I am all set...now if only I hadn't bought my sony 600 3 weeks ago..
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:22 AM   #90
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I definitely agree that for whatever reason they did not, I have to take my hat off for the fact they actually did launch in more than 100 countries in one go. without any rumor!!

besides, it really doesn't effect me in any way that they are not available in those countries. As long as they have it Japan, Guam and Australia I am all set...now if only I hadn't bought my sony 600 3 weeks ago..
Don't worry, the Sony is actually the superior device. If I get a Kindle then I would only get a DX.
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