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Old 10-08-2009, 02:13 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delphidb96 View Post
Have you considered that, perhaps, Amazon is afraid of massive lawsuits or even fatwahs against it because it's Kindle book delivery system would allow books that don't "pass muster" by the various mullahs to be purchased and (Oh my GAWD! Say it ain't so!) even read by the average citizen of those countries? Not saying that *IS* the case, but it might be a factor.

Derek
This idea has already been expressed by lev, albeit a touch more respectfully.

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Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Religous fanatics (Christian fanatics, that is) in the US are less likely to use a car bomb to express their displeasure with Amazon.
... must this thread really go down that road?

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:14 PM   #62
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Religous fanatics (Christian fanatics, that is) in the US are less likely to use a car bomb to express their displeasure with Amazon.
Car bomb maybe, but there is still plenty of religiously motivated violence in the US, from Church burnings to Abortion clinic bombings and shootings of abortion providers. There may be not as much per capita, but I think that has much more to do with poverty levels, political stability, and foreign invasions than any religion being more inherently peaceful. Besides, as far as I know, there are no amazon staff in countries we are discussing TO car bomb. With Saudi especially, I could see the censorship angle, as books promoting anything other than their officially sanctioned brand of Islam are restricted. The sufi stuff I see on Amazon would drive them nuts.

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:22 PM   #63
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I read one English translation of the Quran. I found the prophet too intolerant. Not all of Islam are America's enemies but our mortal enemies are indeed Islamic. In summary, I have no problem if Amazon is indeed showing some religious bias here.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:30 PM   #64
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That said--I doubt the reasons have anything to do with fear of violence, or even (directly) with censorship. I expect it's a matter of economics--Kindle problems with the local languages, ability to supply/maintain wireless coverage (which Amazon insists is required for Kindle sales), and potentially local laws involving imported technology.

Not including them on the first wave of non-US Kindle sales doesn't mean anything. It may just mean "we only have so many Kindles to sell in the next six months, and we're focusing those sales on the countries we expect to buy the most books after they buy Kindles, in order to fund the next wave of non-US Kindle production."
I would normally agree however, if you are to consider that kindle is sold in Armenia and Georgia (small markets, low income, less developed) and not in Turkey (compared to Armenia and Georgia have larger market, higher income and better infrastructure as in coverage - look at the coverage map given in amazon and you see both Armenia and Georgia have no wireless coverage) I believe economic reason does not hold. I am sure such comparison will hold for other countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia vs Timor, Papau New Guinea etc.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:33 PM   #65
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But why should that be any truer, Derek, than religious fanatics in the United States objecting to books promoting, say, Darwinian evolution, or atheism?
Not saying that there aren't weird fanatics in the US. Especially on the topics you've just mentioned (As if evolution could ever be a "religion" ). However, we DO have a little something called the Bill of Rights which the rest of us can use to tell those (and I'm only referring to US fanatics here) idjits where to shove it.

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:36 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Penforhire View Post
I read one English translation of the Quran. I found the prophet too intolerant. Not all of Islam are America's enemies but our mortal enemies are indeed Islamic. In summary, I have no problem if Amazon is indeed showing some religious bias here.
Oh puh-LEEZE! Do NOT go down that road! I've read CAIR's masterpiece of religious propaganda and while reading all the commentary left a decidedly bad taste in my mouth, I did NOT come away believing that Islamics are our (US citizen here) mortal enemies.

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:38 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by luqmaninbmore View Post
Car bomb maybe, but there is still plenty of religiously motivated violence in the US, from Church burnings to Abortion clinic bombings and shootings of abortion providers. There may be not as much per capita, but I think that has much more to do with poverty levels, political stability, and foreign invasions than any religion being more inherently peaceful. Besides, as far as I know, there are no amazon staff in countries we are discussing TO car bomb. With Saudi especially, I could see the censorship angle, as books promoting anything other than their officially sanctioned brand of Islam are restricted. The sufi stuff I see on Amazon would drive them nuts.
Exactly! And pointing out that some countries have this decided tendency to censor anything of value does not in any way reflect on the religion itself. (GAWD! My neighbors are muslim, have lived next to us for years and years and we get along just fine. We even swap meals during Ramadan and Passover. )

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Old 10-08-2009, 02:59 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penforhire View Post
I read one English translation of the Quran. I found the prophet too intolerant. Not all of Islam are America's enemies but our mortal enemies are indeed Islamic. In summary, I have no problem if Amazon is indeed showing some religious bias here.
This is absolutely not the forum for debates about what religions are or are not "enemies" of any particular nation.

If you'd prefer to take the topic to PM, I'd be happy to point out the flaws and dangers I've noticed in Christian scripture and religious practices. At whatever length you'd be willing to tolerate. From several angles, ranging from scientific to literary to historical to philosophical.

This. Is. Not. The. Place.

I absolutely don't believe there is any religious bias in Amazon's Kindle decisions, although I understand that countries with official non-Christian religions may have political or economic situations that are based on their religious beliefs, and those political or economic settings may have influenced Amazon's decisions.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penforhire View Post
I read one English translation of the Quran. I found the prophet too intolerant. Not all of Islam are America's enemies but our mortal enemies are indeed Islamic. In summary, I have no problem if Amazon is indeed showing some religious bias here.
There may indeed Muslims who are mortal enemies of the US, but there also mortal enemies of many other stripes, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Communist, Capitalist, Anarchist, Fascist, etc. Any country as wealthy and powerful as the US and which is not afraid to use that power to either invade or economically sanction its rivals/geo-political whipping boys will end up with mortal enemies of many stripes. As for what you believe about the Qur'an, all I can say is that it should be judged according to the truth it conveys. Tolerance is a social policy; I don't think it is either true or false. It is simply more or less pragmatic in a given social context.

Luqman

Edit: But again, these issues have nothing to do with what we are discussing. I don't think Amazon is prejudiced against Muslims. I simply noticed an apparent pattern and was curious about its explanation.

Last edited by luqmaninbmore; 10-08-2009 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:15 PM   #70
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I will step in and ask, politely, that discussions of religion, race, and creed be limited and preferably not carried out in MobileRead. We are an international community and our members have quite diverse backgrounds.

Also, once again, please refrain from personal attacks on one antoher. If yo disagree with someone, state that you disagree with their statement, but let's stop the use of the word "idiot" and like words, please.

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Last edited by pshrynk; 10-08-2009 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:02 PM   #71
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I suspect that the reason some countries have been left out is actually a numbers game.

Say for example that Amazon can create 2 million Kindles in the next 6 months. half as national and half as international versions.

Given 100 countries that's only 10000 per country. (Outside the US)

Obviously some countries will get a lot more stock than that, but it may be that Amazon simply can not supply any more markets at this stage given the infrastructure and supply chain already in place.

And then there are just strange anomalies such as Canada.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:08 PM   #72
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I suspect that the reason some countries have been left out is actually a numbers game.

Say for example that Amazon can create 2 million Kindles in the next 6 months. half as national and half as international versions.

Given 100 countries that's only 10000 per country. (Outside the US)
It's been pointed out that some small countries with limited wireless access have been included. I suspect this is because they're somehow covered by trade contracts with larger nearby countries, and Amazon doesn't expect to sell substantial numbers of Kindles to those countries.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:08 PM   #73
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When you think of everything that goes into selling a product like this in a given country, I'm surprised they released it to so many countries simultaneously. The fact that Canada is not yet covered says to me that logistics can pose a serious barrier. Canada would be a huge market. I'm sure Amazon must want it. I doubt they're anti-Canadian. This says to me that there are complexities that go beyond just whether there is wireless coverage and people who want books. You figure they have to look at all sorts of things. Are the wireless fees low enough to support the business model? Is the link quality good in enough areas? Are there enough people who can afford it once you add duties and shipping? Are there enough customers for English language books? Could there be issues with the government? Can Amazon adequately provide customer support in the region? If it's going to cost you $50 to ship a replacement, then that can seriously suck out the profit. The list goes on. Even if all these things are favorable, there's the question of how fast they can scale this enterprise. If you can't add support for everyone at once, then you pick the areas you think will be most profitable.

When Amazon confined their initial release to the US, plenty of people speculated that it was just American isolationism. It's business. Most products do not have global launches. Companies figure out the best markets for their product at the time. There are plenty of products that are released elsewhere that never make it to the US. I don't take it personally.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:40 PM   #74
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I will step in and ask, politely, that discussions of religion, race, and creed be limited and preferably not carried out in MobileRead. We are an international community and our members have quite diverse backbrounds.

Also, once again, please refrain from personal attacks on one antoher. If yo disagree with someone, state that you disagree with their statement, but let's stop the use of the word "idiot" and like words, please.

pshrynk (moderator)

Thank you.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:48 PM   #75
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I suspect that part of the problem is rights clearance. Canada has a very complex right clearance, it has to be done on a title by title basis (US related rights versus UK related rights.) I don't know, and don't know how to look up, the rights available through the publishers for each country in the world. So publishers may only have rights to certain countries, or only a title list of available titles that the publisher has the rights to. In addition, local censorship issues may be involved. I expect that Amazon, as a ebook seller, does not want to deal with any title-by-title basis, whatever the reason, rather than just being able to sell anything by the publisher in a country where the publisher has rights.

This is all surmise, of course...
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