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Old 10-06-2009, 06:00 PM   #31
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Jeremy: we have guidelines about language. Please try to remember that this is an international forum and that we endeavour to preserve a sense of politeness and decorum. Also, that one can phrase one's point of view in language which is not crudely sexual but still conveys one's meaning.
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:26 PM   #32
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Someone did, and in the most thoroughly despicable manner imaginable. On his short-lived TV show, Rush Limbaugh said, "Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" He then displayed a picture of then thirteen year old Chelsea Clinton.
That's harsh. Shows like Saturday Night Live were also over-the-line mean to her as well. Poor thing, she did have one of the worst "awkward stages" I've ever seen, but she at least she grew out of it.
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:12 AM   #33
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I agree. The kids should be off-limits. The spouse also should be off-limits, unless they involve themselves in the fray.
This is very true and Sarah Palin should definitely not have opened things up by involving her own kids in the presidential race in the first place.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:44 PM   #34
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I agree. The kids should be off-limits. The spouse also should be off-limits, unless they involve themselves in the fray.
I agree,, but in this case it was just SO juicy for the press they coudn't help themselves. Palin advocates abstinence programs, opposes condoms in schools, opposes sex education. Her unwed daughter gets knocked up at what... 17? Now, that kind of hammers home the inadequacy of her policy, and that failed policy could have negative impacts on teenagers across the country should it be realized.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:52 PM   #35
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I agree,, but in this case it was just SO juicy for the press they coudn't help themselves. Palin advocates abstinence programs, opposes condoms in schools, opposes sex education. Her unwed daughter gets knocked up at what... 17? Now, that kind of hammers home the inadequacy of her policy, and that failed policy could have negative impacts on teenagers across the country should it be realized.
How would the Republicans have reacted if one of the Obama girls was in the same situation? I can't imagine that they would have been kind.

BTW, I'm not saying that I approve of the maltreatment of Palin's daughters. I feel sorry for every politician's family (including Obama's). They all end up just being props.

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Old 10-08-2009, 07:50 AM   #36
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I agree,, but in this case it was just SO juicy for the press they coudn't help themselves. Palin advocates abstinence programs, opposes condoms in schools, opposes sex education. Her unwed daughter gets knocked up at what... 17? Now, that kind of hammers home the inadequacy of her policy, and that failed policy could have negative impacts on teenagers across the country should it be realized.
The policy is fair game, but the daughter should be kept out of the debate. The very fact of the pregnancy should by itself speak volumes about the inadequacy of the abstinence-only approach. People who can't make that connection aren't going to be persuaded by facts anyway, and keeping the daughter in the spotlight isn't being very kind to her.
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Old 10-09-2009, 04:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
The policy is fair game, but the daughter should be kept out of the debate. The very fact of the pregnancy should by itself speak volumes about the inadequacy of the abstinence-only approach. People who can't make that connection aren't going to be persuaded by facts anyway, and keeping the daughter in the spotlight isn't being very kind to her.
See though, that's part of the issue. I don't recall anyone on the left putting Palin's daughters into the campaign. There weren't any big news stories about them that I'm aware of. There weren't even that many comics making jokes about them (at least not directly). Plus, when pundits like Keith Olbermann DID mention the Palin children it was to call out the idea of people using them as campaign fodder as a horrible, mean-spirited thing to do that they didn't deserve.

As far as I can tell, the only people who talked about Palin's kids were HER and her far-right buddies decrying the Obama campaign for things they don't appear to have done.
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:16 AM   #38
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See though, that's part of the issue. I don't recall anyone on the left putting Palin's daughters into the campaign. There weren't any big news stories about them that I'm aware of. There weren't even that many comics making jokes about them (at least not directly). Plus, when pundits like Keith Olbermann DID mention the Palin children it was to call out the idea of people using them as campaign fodder as a horrible, mean-spirited thing to do that they didn't deserve.
I'm not sure where you were during the campaign if you missed news stories about the Palins. Google "Palin's daughter pregnant" and you'll find hundreds of them. I read it in The New York Times. As for comedians, they all made lots of jokes about it; David Letterman, Bill Maher, Kathy Griffin and Dan Savage to name a few.

I don't think this is a Left/Right issue. It's a sleazy politician issue. All of them use their families as props and all of their families are punished for it.
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:14 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Superlucky View Post
I'm not sure where you were during the campaign if you missed news stories about the Palins. Google "Palin's daughter pregnant" and you'll find hundreds of them. I read it in The New York Times. As for comedians, they all made lots of jokes about it; David Letterman, Bill Maher, Kathy Griffin and Dan Savage to name a few.

I don't think this is a Left/Right issue. It's a sleazy politician issue. All of them use their families as props and all of their families are punished for it.
Exactly! But, since the press tend to lean toward the left, they are much more aggresive when it comes to the children of the Republican candidates. I will say, though, that once a candidate gets elected, the press tends to back off the kids as they did with the Bush twins. And as for the left, they had Biden's and Obama's families on the stage, too. However, if a negative issue came up, as it did with one of Biden's daughters, the media barely covered it and I didn't hear of any comedian picking it up for joke material. Unfortunately, you can't really talk fair game when it comes to the media and political coverage. It isn't equal or fair. As an Independent, it makes things very difficult.

Say what you will about Sarah Palin, she stood behind her daugther. If you have children, you know how hard it is to bring them up with the values you think are important when they are bombarded with so much outside "stuff" that isn't compatible. It wasn't like that when I was growing up. If it had been one of my daughters, I certainly wouldn't have hidden her in a corner but would have shown her the love and support that the Palins did. A lot of what you saw in the press was speculation and commentary that didn't do anyone any favors. Now, you have the young father of the girl's baby playing out his 15 minutes of fame (including a spread in Playgirl magazine) which to me, indicates his true character.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:37 AM   #40
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I'm not sure where you were during the campaign if you missed news stories about the Palins. Google "Palin's daughter pregnant" and you'll find hundreds of them. I read it in The New York Times. As for comedians, they all made lots of jokes about it; David Letterman, Bill Maher, Kathy Griffin and Dan Savage to name a few.
If a candidate goes out of their way to make their family so integral to the campaign then they are the ones that open the door to the media commenting on the family, especially when said family provide such a brilliant example against one of the candidate's policies.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:48 AM   #41
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Exactly! But, since the press tend to lean toward the left, they are much more aggresive when it comes to the children of the Republican candidates.
The press lean to the left, who told you that then, fox news?


Quote:
I will say, though, that once a candidate gets elected, the press tends to back off the kids as they did with the Bush twins. And as for the left, they had Biden's and Obama's families on the stage, too. However, if a negative issue came up, as it did with one of Biden's daughters, the media barely covered it and I didn't hear of any comedian picking it up for joke material. Unfortunately, you can't really talk fair game when it comes to the media and political coverage. It isn't equal or fair. As an Independent, it makes things very difficult.
Wasn't the stuff with biden's daughter a lot older rather than something that was happening during the campaign?

I do agree with you that things aren't equal or fair, after all the previous government had to invade countries at random before people organised demonstrations against them, whereas now you have cable news doing the organisation this time round.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:58 AM   #42
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The press lean to the left, who told you that then, fox news?

Wasn't the stuff with biden's daughter a lot older rather than something that was happening during the campaign?

I do agree with you that things aren't equal or fair, after all the previous government had to invade countries at random before people organised demonstrations against them, whereas now you have cable news doing the organisation this time round.

I resent these comments. I make up my own mind based on my own observations. I have not belittled your intelligence nor made negative comments about your posts, please do not do the same to mine. Your viewpoints may differ from mine, but that is no cause to be snide. It is quite obvious from your posts that you tend to lean toward the liberal and that is fine, just as it is fine for me to stand firmly in the middle and to decide which way to lean based on the issues at hand.

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Old 10-09-2009, 12:09 PM   #43
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To my mind, if a politician makes "family values" a political issue, then that makes THEIR family a "legitimate target" for the press when breaches of what that politician is propounding come to light. Especially when the family members are adults, as in this case.
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:34 PM   #44
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Well, I think that if a candidate makes family values a part of his or her campaign, then when that candidate does something that shows they don't live their values, then they deserve to be mocked and ridiculed. However, if a family member does something that is outside the values of the candidate, then it should still be off limits. I have had embarrassing moments with both my kids, but I don't have control over them.
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:06 PM   #45
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To my mind, if a politician makes "family values" a political issue, then that makes THEIR family a "legitimate target" for the press when breaches of what that politician is propounding come to light. Especially when the family members are adults, as in this case.
It's the politicians who make it the issue, so it's still not fair to the kids. Joe Biden wrote stupid drug laws, not his daughter and Sarah Palin, not her daughter, promoted stupid ideas about sex education. It irritated me during the Bush years when gay rights groups kept going after Mary Cheney as if she was responsible for her father's policies.
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