Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Formats > ePub

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-30-2016, 09:07 AM   #1
MacEachaidh
Browser
MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.MacEachaidh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
MacEachaidh's Avatar
 
Posts: 723
Karma: 578294
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Touch, Kobo Aura HD
Endnotes by chapter or at end of book?

I'm working on an EPUB2 of a book that has extensive footnotes throughout, and formatting these as endnotes.

I'm tossing up as to whether to do these at the end of each chapter, or in a larger section at the end of the book. The major difference I can imagine it would make would be where the endnotes at the end of a chapter amount to several pages to swipe through (though I can put a link to the start of the next chapter), whereas endnotes at the end of a book would mean pages a reader wouldn't have to visit unless they wanted to.

My inclination is to do a full "chapter" of endnotes at the end of the book, but I'm curious whether people here have observations they can make, especially of things I may not have thought of. I'd appreciate hearing any ideas.

(p.s. I'm quite comfortable in the coding of these, so I don't need help in how to achieve that. I'm curious if there are compelling reasons for jumping one way rather than the other.)
MacEachaidh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 01:18 PM   #2
BobC
Evangelist
BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BobC ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 485
Karma: 503654
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lancashire, U.K.
Device: BeBook 1, BeBook Pure, Kobo Glo, Energy Sistem EReader Pro +
You might want to consider the issue of how an e-reader handles the display of foot/endnotes. If the notes are in a separate file at the end of the book then (depending on the actual reader) it might be necessary for the reader to close the file being read in order to open and display content from the endnote file.

Some readers for instance are capable of displaying footnotes (i.e. within the same file as the referring note) as a pop-up but endnotes (separate file) have to be displayed by jumping to the file that contains them and displaying that page.

The extra processing involved in opening an additional file each time a note is viewed could even affect battery capacity.

My preference now is for "footnotes" rather than endnotes.

I just downloaded a book where each note was in its own file at the end - this seems like taking things to the extreme.

The issue of having to jump over end of chapter notes is, of course, a personal preference and may be influenced by just how many notes per chapter you are dealing with, not a big issue with a couple of notes but annoying when you have a chapter with 40 or more notes.

BobC
BobC is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Advertisement
Old 07-30-2016, 03:58 PM   #3
Jellby
frumious Bandersnatch
Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Jellby ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Jellby's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,971
Karma: 8443021
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Spaniard in Sweden
Device: Cybook Orizon, Kobo Aura
Until showing notes as popups (and removing them from the normal flow) becomes a widespread feature (read: is supported by my reader of choice), I'll prefer endnotes. Notes at the end of each chapter are also annoying if one wants to page back from the start of one chapter to end of the previous one. If there are many notes, split them by chapter, but put them all at the end of the book.
Jellby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2016, 06:08 PM   #4
BetterRed
null operator
BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BetterRed ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,009
Karma: 6294709
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NSW Australia
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
Until showing notes as popups (and removing them from the normal flow) becomes a widespread feature (read: is supported by my reader of choice), I'll prefer endnotes. Notes at the end of each chapter are also annoying if one wants to page back from the start of one chapter to end of the previous one. If there are many notes, split them by chapter, but put them all at the end of the book.

As a reader I like to have them at the end of the book in one or more separate xhtml files so that I can easily copy them into a separate book and read text and notes side-by-side on two readers (tablet and phone).

I often photocopy the footnotes from paper books, with ebooks I've even printed them. If a book has a lot of maps at the front, I sometimes break them out and put them in a CBZ.

IMO - the assumption that reader only wants to see one footnote in isolation of all other footnotes is misguided. If a paragraph in the body of the work has several footnotes, I like to be able to see all of them - at least.

One day the ebook industry might unshackle itself from the bound paper page linear paradigm. But probably not in my lifetime, if how long it took to get from Bacon's flapping wings (late 13th c) to Langley's machines (late 19th c) is any guide

BR
BetterRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 03:07 AM   #5
fbrzvnrnd
Zealot
fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.fbrzvnrnd is that somebody.
 
Posts: 145
Karma: 45232
Join Date: Feb 2009
Device: iLiad
Usually I prefer to put the notes at the end of a chapter: older ebook readers are faster jumping inside a pre-paginated chapter (or: slower when all the notes of all chapters are all in a single file that the ebook reader has to load everytime the human reader touch the note number).
We also experiment some ebooks with notes handled as floating box, or other ebooks with no notes, but hypertext links to the content of the reference cited in note.
fbrzvnrnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2016, 03:58 AM   #6
Doitsu
Wizard
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,215
Karma: 7612042
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacEachaidh View Post
I'm working on an EPUB2 of a book that has extensive footnotes throughout, and formatting these as endnotes.
You don't have to restrict yourself to epub2 books, because it's pretty easy to create epub2 compatible epub3 books with Sigil and the epub3 output plugin.

Also if you use epub3 footnote markup, you'll future-proof your book and most epub3 apps will display them as popup footnotes.
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2016, 05:17 AM   #7
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,972
Karma: 29671756
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
You don't have to restrict yourself to epub2 books, because it's pretty easy to create epub2 compatible epub3 books with Sigil and the epub3 output plugin.

Also if you use epub3 footnote markup, you'll future-proof your book and most epub3 apps will display them as popup footnotes.
But that does nothing to help the here and now. ePub 3 is not what's being used. So go with what works for ePub 2 because that's what's being used.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2016, 12:08 PM   #8
Turtle91
Wizard
Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Turtle91's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,181
Karma: 10964294
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Altus, Oklahoma today
Device: iPhone 6/5/iPad 1,2 & Air/Surface Pro/Kindle PW
Jon, despite your aversion to anything ePub3, it is becoming more and more common/accepted. I am continuing to find more retail ebooks that have ePub3 markup than don't.

Future proofing your book is just plain smart. Why create a vanilla ePub2 when you can add a little different markup which allows your books to take advantage of the advances in ePub3 - and still be read on both ePub2 and 3 devices/apps?
Turtle91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 06:40 AM   #9
Notjohn
mostly an observer
Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Notjohn ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 864
Karma: 344490
Join Date: Dec 2012
Device: Kindle
Quote:
As a reader I like to have them at the end of the book in one or more separate xhtml files so that I can easily copy them into a separate book and read text and notes side-by-side on two readers (tablet and phone).

I often photocopy the footnotes from paper books, with ebooks I've even printed them.
Wow. I love reading the notes (provided the author has put in some gems and not merely citations, though if I'm particularly interested in a subject I will read citations too). But that's a level of devotion I've not yet reached.

In a print edition, which I favor for serious books, I read with a spare finger or a Post-it note for easy navigation to the notes. In e-books, I mostly ignore them, or at most glance over a few pages of them from time to time.

And in writing a book, I take particular care to make the notes section a goldmine of useful nuggets or just plain glitter.

As for FOOTNOTES, I no longer use them in the print edition. I either work the information into the text or banish it to the back to enrich the other notes. They're usually self-indulgent anyhow.
Notjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 10:14 AM   #10
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,972
Karma: 29671756
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Jon, despite your aversion to anything ePub3, it is becoming more and more common/accepted. I am continuing to find more retail ebooks that have ePub3 markup than don't.

Future proofing your book is just plain smart. Why create a vanilla ePub2 when you can add a little different markup which allows your books to take advantage of the advances in ePub3 - and still be read on both ePub2 and 3 devices/apps?
Because if you do more to your ePub to make it even more ePub 3 than the publishers are doing now, you very well could end up with an ePub that won't work well with older versions of ADE. A lot of Readers still in use have older versions ADE and they very well may not handle these sorts of things such as trying to make footnotes into popup footnotes.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 10:42 AM   #11
Doitsu
Wizard
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,215
Karma: 7612042
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
A lot of Readers still in use have older versions ADE and they very well may not handle these sorts of things such as trying to make footnotes into popup footnotes.
Had you actually tested the sample file that I linked to, you'd found out that it actually worked fine with most older ADE versions.
You really might want to refrain yourself from posting about technical matters that you don't fully understand.
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 06:55 PM   #12
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 43,972
Karma: 29671756
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 4, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
Had you actually tested the sample file that I linked to, you'd found out that it actually worked fine with most older ADE versions.
You really might want to refrain yourself from posting about technical matters that you don't fully understand.
As you've said...
Quote:
ADE: only footnotes 2, 3, 4 and 5 work in ADE 1.7-4.0
So how do all the footnotes work when even you've said they don't all work?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 02:28 AM   #13
Doitsu
Wizard
Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Doitsu ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Doitsu's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,215
Karma: 7612042
Join Date: Dec 2010
Device: Kindle PW2
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
So how do all the footnotes work when even you've said they don't all work?
Again, had you looked at the test epub and carefully read my post, you would have noticed that I used two different kinds of epub3 footnote markup and the second type worked with all ADE versions.
Doitsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 11:59 AM   #14
Turtle91
Wizard
Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Turtle91 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Turtle91's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,181
Karma: 10964294
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Altus, Oklahoma today
Device: iPhone 6/5/iPad 1,2 & Air/Surface Pro/Kindle PW
Besides, the topic is future proofing your books - ie making sure they can be read on future devices that use ePub3. We should never disregard innovation just because there are some people living in the past- can you imagine a world with no cars because the gas hose wouldn't fill up the horse?!?

The goal is to allow the use of new technology/techniques - while still letting the older devices function... even if that functionality is extremely limited when compared to the newer model!
Turtle91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2016, 11:08 PM   #15
Tex2002ans
Guru
Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Tex2002ans ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 676
Karma: 3366969
Join Date: Jul 2012
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbrzvnrnd View Post
Usually I prefer to put the notes at the end of a chapter: older ebook readers are faster jumping inside a pre-paginated chapter


This is the method I prefer as well. Then the entirety of each chapter is in its own nice little HTML page. Makes it easy to copy/paste elsewhere (for example, as an article on a website, or in a blog/forum post, [...]).
Tex2002ans is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad Bookmark Locations/End Of Chapter ChasUGC Calibre 1 07-04-2014 09:53 PM
Touch How to handle end of chapter notations Chocky Kobo Reader 13 01-06-2014 06:47 PM
Other Fiction Galsworthy, John: End of the Chapter. v3, 21 Nov 2010 Jellby Kindle Books 0 11-21-2010 11:05 AM
Next Chapter skips to End in last chapter? JoGoCo Kobo Reader 5 07-13-2010 09:23 PM
Pages to end of chapter. Any javascript function? Car105 Sony Reader Dev Corner 0 12-28-2009 05:03 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:03 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.