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Old 08-17-2009, 07:41 PM   #46
wayrad
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What we have here is probably a prankster or somebody who thinks he's very clever and can make money ripping off Amazon and it's customers
And/or somebody trying to precipitate a repeat of the "1984" fiasco, perhaps.
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Old 08-17-2009, 11:14 PM   #47
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A prankster? Since when are pirates people who will only put things up for free? Strange distinction here...

One thing that might become funny in the short future is how Amazon might find itself in even worst a situation than that of some torrent sites. Torrent sites have always argued that they cannot be deemed guilty of pirating because they do not host the files and have no responsability over the content of the files shared. Well, Amazon hosts the files and should supervise content! I say they should go on trial in Sweden!
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:53 AM   #48
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I think that it does not help when books are not made available in ebook format and then are pirated. In Rawlings case wouldn't it just be easier to set up a legitmate copy of ebooks for sale through regular sources? Would that not help stem the tide of pirating of her ebooks?

Amy
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Old 08-18-2009, 04:38 AM   #49
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I think that it does not help when books are not made available in ebook format and then are pirated. In Rawlings case wouldn't it just be easier to set up a legitmate copy of ebooks for sale through regular sources? Would that not help stem the tide of pirating of her ebooks?

Amy
That Rowling . And yes, proper and official e-book would help. I'm editing my own copies, it's kind of a work.
While I already own more copies of the Harry Potter book than need be, i would gladly pay for a proper e-book.
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Old 08-18-2009, 07:07 AM   #50
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The 150 or so pirated titles this guy uploaded have all been removed. And either the guy left a trace of himself and maybe they'll go after him or he didn't and they won't. That was easy enough.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:32 AM   #51
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Wow, ahi. It was only a possible suggestion of a way to 'eventually' take care of the problem. The technology is available, it just has yet to be implemented. It will take quite a while to do it. But it still is only a suggestion.
I'm inclined to agree with ahi on this, though he does say it incredibly forcefully. If there's one thing I've learned over the course of my years, it's that when people say "they just need to do this" or "all it takes is...", the person saying it usually has NO idea how to do it or what is actually involved. At the same time, the "just" or "all it takes" tend to be the most difficult part of the process.

So griffonwing, while you say "The technology is available, it just has yet to be implemented", guess what the most complex part of the problem is. If you can't actually offer any insight into how the implementation would take place, you're words are as valuable as someone saying "Fixing health care is simple. All they need to do is find the cure to all the diseases." (And I'm not intending to pick on you personally, it's just that your phrase was sitting up there in the quoted text, and it worked quite well for the example.)
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:01 AM   #52
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The only reasonable way to deal with this (since verifying every book uploaded is not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination) is to only deal with established publishers, or with distributors/wholesalers who only deal with established publishers.

But as I understand in a few more years there will be no more publishers, no more distributors, only westerners sitting on their asses at home editing each others' fan fiction until it is deemed ready for cloud-publishing by the collective conscious. So professionally published books not yet in the public domain will cease to be available altogether, and the problem will thus solve itself.

- Ahi
I believe that it is very reasonable to verify every book that is uploaded. If you intend to sell if for profit you should be validating that you have the appropriate rights.

What is required is to revert the Copyright laws back to 14 years from the publish date and keep a central database. Companies like Amazon should be lobbying the governments for this.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:12 AM   #53
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copyright that is only valid for 14 years after publishing? Eh, while I am no fan of how things are now. I'd be more inclined to go 14 years after the author's death, so that they can defend their creation, and then their want and will doesn't immediately get forgotten immediately after death.

I really don't see why a change in copyright law is required for Amazon to check every upload. Other companies do it just fine. It isn't instant approval for apps in the iphone app store. All the online stores that sold the works of people I've worked for had a testing process. Yes, it would take a while to approve things, and can get busy for people in charge of approvals, but think of the legal headaches they already could have avoided. The self publishing without any sort of check, is prone to being abused. They should have known this from the get go.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:14 AM   #54
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copyright that is only valid for 14 years after publishing? Eh, while I am no fan of how things are now. I'd be more inclined to go 14 years after the author's death, so that they can defend their creation, and then their want and will doesn't immediately get forgotten immediately after death.

I really don't see why a change in copyright law is required for Amazon to check every upload. Other companies do it just fine. It isn't instant approval for apps in the iphone app store. All the online stores that sold the works of people I've worked for had a testing process. Yes, it would take a while to approve things, and can get busy for people in charge of approvals, but think of the legal headaches they already could have avoided. The self publishing without any sort of check, is prone to being abused. They should have known this from the get go.
Why do you assume the copyright is worth anything 14 years later? The vast majority isn't worth anything.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:23 AM   #55
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I may be mistaken, but I believe that checking or verifying the validity of the works beforehand opens them up to considerably larger damages in the event that something ever does slip through. Also, as it is, they are working within the current legal framework (i.e., removal of infringing material after receiving a takedown notice). It makes perfect business sense to operate as they are now until such time as they're forced to add a verification department. Note also that this is exactly how YouTube and Scribd operate (or just about any site/company that allows mass uploading of user-created [or potentially infringing] content).
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:06 AM   #56
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That Rowling . And yes, proper and official e-book would help. I'm editing my own copies, it's kind of a work.
While I already own more copies of the Harry Potter book than need be, i would gladly pay for a proper e-book.
She has chosen not to permit eBooks. We may not agree with her decision (in fact I'm sure that the vast majority of it don't!), but it is hers and hers alone to make, and we should respect that fact.
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:30 AM   #57
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She has chosen not to permit eBooks. We may not agree with her decision (in fact I'm sure that the vast majority of it don't!), but it is hers and hers alone to make, and we should respect that fact.
I suspect it has less to do with her not wanting ebook versions of her works as it does with her (and her publisher) waiting for the ebook market to really hit the mainstream (it's almost there). Once it does, you can be assured that legitimate versions of all the Harry Potter books will be available as ebooks--at a price of $14.99 each. By releasing them too early, they'll be in a position where the price will be expected to come down after a while, at which point they could make less money by selling the same number of copies. But if they hold out just a bit longer, they can really rake it in. Remember folks, business is all about maximizing profit.
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Old 08-18-2009, 10:52 AM   #58
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I may be mistaken, but I believe that checking or verifying the validity of the works beforehand opens them up to considerably larger damages in the event that something ever does slip through. Also, as it is, they are working within the current legal framework (i.e., removal of infringing material after receiving a takedown notice). It makes perfect business sense to operate as they are now until such time as they're forced to add a verification department. Note also that this is exactly how YouTube and Scribd operate (or just about any site/company that allows mass uploading of user-created [or potentially infringing] content).
Verifying before releasing would indeed open them to more liability--if they were covered by "safe harbor" rules. Since they're directly profiting from each book they release for sale, safe harbor may not apply.

Section 512(a) of the DMCA indicates that there's no liability to the service provider, as long as (1) the service provider didn't initiate the transaction, (2) the submit/retrieve process is automated (at least from the SP's perspective), (3) the SP doesn't individually select recipients, (4) storage is transitory (this refers to things like email communications), and (5) the content isn't modified.

So far, that looks like they might qualify, except that point 4 is a bit tricky. However, farther down in the rules, at 512 (c)(1)(B), it mentions that liability is only avoided if the service provider "does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity."

YouTube and Scribd aren't selling you access to vids & ebooks; they receive no direct financial benefit from providing you with infringing copyrighted material.

In any case... since I doubt they received DMCA takedown notices from the Heinlein estate, Harlan Ellison, Rowling's lawyers, Stephen King, and Robert Jordan's family all in the last 24 hours, they very likelyare doing some management of content, not just waiting for DMCA notices to come through. This would exempt them from the whole Safe Harbor concept.
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:00 AM   #59
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Thanks for clarifying that, Elfwreck. IANAL, but from how I see it Amazon aren't the direct beneficiary of any sale—rather, the uploader/publisher is and Amazon is secondary (or possibly tertiary). Would this be somewhat similar to how Google doesn't directly make profit from the viewing of YouTube videos, but does make a profit from the selling of ads that accompany those videos?
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Old 08-18-2009, 11:18 AM   #60
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I may be mistaken, but I believe that checking or verifying the validity of the works beforehand opens them up to considerably larger damages in the event that something ever does slip through. Also, as it is, they are working within the current legal framework (i.e., removal of infringing material after receiving a takedown notice). It makes perfect business sense to operate as they are now until such time as they're forced to add a verification department. Note also that this is exactly how YouTube and Scribd operate (or just about any site/company that allows mass uploading of user-created [or potentially infringing] content).
The main difference here is that Youtube does not sell their videos for profit, whereas Amazon does. Not sure if Scribd does, as I have never visited their site.
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